Options for Season Completion

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
John Upham
Posts: 4963
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Options for Season Completion

Post by John Upham » Sun May 10, 2020 10:34 am

Here are (IMHO) the reasonable options for local leagues and their 2019 - 2020 seasons :

1. The 2019 – 2020 season is declared void, games are submitted for grading but no titles are decided. (easiest option)
2. The 2019 – 2020 season is ended where we are now, games are submitted for grading and titles are decided. (least fair IMHO)
3. The season is completed via online matches : matches played online are submitted for online grading
4. The remaining fixtures are re-scheduled into the 2020 -2021 season. This will probably make the 2020 2021 season very difficult to manage.

Any additional options ?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am

There is the additional option of compromising between 2 and 4 by effectively assume a few results and try to finish the significant matches with title plays offs. That's often fairly reasonable.

The Yorkshire top division say we've got 2 teams on 8/8 (3 matches to play), the nearest is on 6/8. Having the two leading teams directly play off isn't precisely ideal, but its about 95% accurate to what would happen in a full season and much easier to arrange. Its been mooted and thought about. Seems quite a pragmatic idea to me.

Promotion/Relegation obviously very much murkier.

It does obviously all greatly depend on when we're allowed back to play though. It might well be that there's only a few months of the 20/21 season left, in which case it'll be most logical to scrap 20/21 entirely and finish 19/20 in its place.

J T Melsom
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 10, 2020 11:00 am

I'm not sure that any decision can be reached until we know when we are to return. It will also depend on how quickly the current season could be concluded and the new one, potentially in revised format commenced. Option 4 still has legs in my view.

I note Oxfordshire have moved faster than most in ending the season and awarding the title. The likely destiny of the title was not considered in doubt, and presumably as it was a University side, they would have been further disadvantaged by resuming the league potentially outside term time.

In all options - games played should be graded -they were held under proper match conditions. I think the same would arise if games were completed in a match which was later abandoned due to fire drill, but not absolutely sure we did so the last and so far only time this happened.

I don't see any merit in conclusion by on-line means - where clubs were prepared to field teams, the composition would likely be very different. In my club I could probably select those who have moved away since the start of the season - not sure how thats fair.

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun May 10, 2020 11:05 am

I agree too early to make a decision in most cases.

Perhaps John is asking to try to anticipate possible LMS requirments.

If so, for maximum complexity, I suggest a combined season 19/20 and 20/21 with 4NCL type promotion and relegation pools.

John Upham
Posts: 4963
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by John Upham » Sun May 10, 2020 11:35 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:05 am
I agree too early to make a decision in most cases.

Perhaps John is asking to try to anticipate possible LMS requirements.

If so, for maximum complexity, I suggest a combined season 19/20 and 20/21 with 4NCL type promotion and relegation pools.
An excellent suggestion. I will start work on the required coding immediately.

The LMS already has provision for matches to be flagged as online as well as online divisions and KO competitions.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2630
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun May 10, 2020 12:01 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am
It might well be that there's only a few months of the 20/21 season left, in which case it'll be most logical to scrap 20/21 entirely and finish 19/20 in its place.
That seems that the most likely viable option to me.

If it turns out to be possible to complete the 19/20 season a couple of months, or more, earlier than the 20/21 season would normally have finished organise something else to fill the gap.

J T Melsom
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 10, 2020 12:14 pm

I did raise in another thread, a potential issue with completing 19/20 in that some teams may not have many fixtures or they may only be away which can be an issue for players. Our first team would only have two matches to play - neither of which is a particularly attractive prospect albeit for different reasons. Ensuring there are alternative opportunities for competitive chess will be critical. Indeed those clubs who only meet on match nights will find this even more challenging.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Nick Grey » Sun May 10, 2020 12:19 pm

I agree too early to make a decision in most cases. Especially if we cannot play again until 2021.

Maybe something from Boris tonight before we MAKE decisions.

consultations, AGMs, first

Reg Clucas
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Reg Clucas » Sun May 10, 2020 1:10 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am

It does obviously all greatly depend on when we're allowed back to play though. It might well be that there's only a few months of the 20/21 season left, in which case it'll be most logical to scrap 20/21 entirely and finish 19/20 in its place.
This seems sensible - even if the 2020-21 season was to start on time, it could fall foul of another lockdown if there's a second 'spike', so you would lose two seasons instead of one.

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun May 10, 2020 2:23 pm

That's much closer to when, not if, with the second spike I fear. Should definitely be planning as if there's one coming at some point.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4131
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun May 10, 2020 2:51 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am
It does obviously all greatly depend on when we're allowed back to play though. It might well be that there's only a few months of the 20/21 season left, in which case it'll be most logical to scrap 20/21 entirely and finish 19/20 in its place.
I have just made that very suggestion in another thread.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10721&start=75

Graham Borrowdale
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Sun May 10, 2020 2:58 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am

It does obviously all greatly depend on when we're allowed back to play though...
Not even that simple - it will also depend on when people are prepared to play again. If players don’t have the stomach for the risk, then even if premises open again leagues will be decimated. I think the most likely outcome is that 19/20 seasons will be null and void.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19215
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 10, 2020 3:46 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am
Promotion/Relegation obviously very much murkier.
I had a thought that you might use the old idea of a Pools Panel. This was where during extremely bad weather such as the 1962-63 winter, that a panel of experts would offer an adjudication of a likely result between two (football) teams. It would be easier to do in Leagues where promotion and relegation was more flexible, so that an AGM or similar would make decisions partly based on consultation as to which teams were promoted or relegated.

PeterFarr
Posts: 596
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:20 pm
Location: Horsham, Sussex

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by PeterFarr » Sun May 10, 2020 3:55 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:46 pm
MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:54 am
Promotion/Relegation obviously very much murkier.
I had a thought that you might use the old idea of a Pools Panel. This was where during extremely bad weather such as the 1962-63 winter, that a panel of experts would offer an adjudication of a likely result between two (football) teams. It would be easier to do in Leagues where promotion and relegation was more flexible, so that an AGM or similar would make decisions partly based on consultation as to which teams were promoted or relegated.
Along similar lines, if only a few matches are left to be played, they could be agreed to be drawn with points shared (rather like a rained-off cricket match). Alternatively, league positions could be decided on % scored to date. These approaches are both less sophisticated than Roger's idea, but simpler to implement and in one sense less contentious in that they are mechanical rather than depending on judgement. If matches can't be played out though, no method is going to be fair to everyone.

J T Melsom
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Options for Season Completion

Post by J T Melsom » Sun May 10, 2020 3:58 pm

On adjudication : Not sure in a small sized league/county you would find enough people without a vested interest or an axe to grind - not easy to predict team composition at all for a start. I recall when league controller going outside the county for advice on a dispute because of the lack of competent independent persons within the county. I've less of an interest in the outcome of the local league this year but six weeks or so back, two people at my club favoured scrapping 2019/20 - one because it was a neat way to unseat the reigning champions (sorry Paul/Roger!), the other because its an amateur competition and best effectively to cut one's losses. These views may change if we are unlikely to get much of the next season played either. My sympathies are with those clubs mounting a rare challenge for the title.

Post Reply