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Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:43 pm
by Tim Spanton
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:40 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:18 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:52 am
so perhaps we will see initiatives from the ECF to get OTB chess moving again
The impression so far is that it has focused on supposed risks without giving thought as to which restrictions are mostly cosmetic and how to get round them.
It surely wouldn't be a good look for a national body (and one that less than a decade ago received funding from public funds) to be encouraging people to get around the law. All it would take is for a local organiser to either misunderstand what the ECF was saying or wilfully misinterpret it and then when challenged say, `The ECF told me I could do this,` and suddenly the ECF has to defend itself.
No one, as far as I know, is suggesting the ECF should "be encouraging people to get around the law." What I am suggesting is that the English CHESS Federation should be encouraging people to play chess rather than, as seems to be the case, searching for reasons not to play chess.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm
by Jacques Parry
The new restrictions are hardly something you need to "search" for. Of course the ECF is encouraging people to comply with the new guidelines. It can't encourage people to flout them, and offering no advice at all wouldn't be helpful.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:46 pm
by Tim Spanton
Jacques Parry wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm
The new restrictions are hardly something you need to "search" for. Of course the ECF is encouraging people to comply with the new guidelines. It can't encourage people to flout them, and offering no advice at all wouldn't be helpful.
The government issues guidelines about many aspects of living, including units of alcohol, portions of fruit and vegetables, installing smart meters, etc - it is not the English CHESS Federation's job to encourage people to comply with such guidelines.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:08 pm
by JustinHorton
Why do you care if they do?

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:46 pm
Jacques Parry wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm
The new restrictions are hardly something you need to "search" for. Of course the ECF is encouraging people to comply with the new guidelines. It can't encourage people to flout them, and offering no advice at all wouldn't be helpful.
The government issues guidelines about many aspects of living, including units of alcohol, portions of fruit and vegetables, installing smart meters, etc - it is not the English CHESS Federation's job to encourage people to comply with such guidelines.
The difference is that none of those have anything directly to do with over-the-board competitive chess, whereas gathering large numbers of people together does.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm
by Jacques Parry
Also, failure to comply with those guidelines is not illegal. These guidelines are the Government's explanation of what we can and can't lawfully do. The explanation is not accurate, but you can hardly blame the ECF for accepting it.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:58 pm
by Tim Spanton
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:46 pm
Jacques Parry wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 pm
The new restrictions are hardly something you need to "search" for. Of course the ECF is encouraging people to comply with the new guidelines. It can't encourage people to flout them, and offering no advice at all wouldn't be helpful.
The government issues guidelines about many aspects of living, including units of alcohol, portions of fruit and vegetables, installing smart meters, etc - it is not the English CHESS Federation's job to encourage people to comply with such guidelines.
The difference is that none of those have anything directly to do with over-the-board competitive chess, whereas gathering large numbers of people together does.
And yet bingo gathers large numbers of people together in conditions in which talking is normal (along with consuming alcohol) and occasional shouting ("Bingo!" or "House!" - I forget which) is also normal, and yet bingo carries on, but the English CHESS Federation joins the doom and gloom merchants.
A major part of the English CHESS Federation's job is to encourage the playing of chess. It is up to individuals to decide if they want to actually play under whatever conditions an event is being held.
BTW, we also get government advice on room temperatures and light-bulbs, but I do not recall the English CHESS Federation trying to enforce such guidelines.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:11 pm
by JustinHorton
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:58 pm
.
BTW, we also get government advice on room temperatures and light-bulbs, but I do not recall the English CHESS Federation trying to enforce such guidelines.
Amazingly silly remark

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
I seem to recall that when we went into the pandemic in March a lot of people were screaming for the ECF to show leadership and stop over the board events from happening (Blackpool going ahead was extremely controversial). They are now being screamed at for not making over the board events happen. You couldn't make it up.

Leaving aside the fact that the ECF is run by elected volunteers so if you think they could be doing things differently there are opportunities to step up to the plate, the ECF (along with the 4NCL) have done extraordinary work to get a program of online chess up and running so at least we have something rather than nothing.

As has been correctly pointed out there are workarounds for chess events to take place but these need to be carefully managed. And if the worst should happen (ie an outbreak) the buck has to stop somewhere. It might be on the person who failed to ensure that restrictions were followed but also on those who might be seen as giving misleading advice.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:54 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 pm
As has been correctly pointed out there are workarounds for chess events to take place but these need to be carefully managed.
The ECF aren't doing anything to publicise these. The Northumberland organisers had found a workaround to restrictions which appeared to seriously limit the number of participants at a chess event. It seemed to be something to do with deeming the players to be forming groups of six, but there's no manual for others who might wish to attempt to follow.

For someone mostly isolating from external contact, both activities contain a degree of risk, but why should an evening in a chess club present a higher risk of infection than an evening in a restaurant?

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:35 pm
by Tim Spanton
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:11 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:58 pm
.
BTW, we also get government advice on room temperatures and light-bulbs, but I do not recall the English CHESS Federation trying to enforce such guidelines.
Amazingly silly remark
I disagree, but I accept you are an expert in such matters.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:08 pm
by Nick Grey
Amazingly silly remarks. it is not the English CHESS Federation's job. Government rules and for local authorities to enforce - NO funding - wait for the budget.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:29 pm
by Andrew Zigmond
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:54 pm

For someone mostly isolating from external contact, both activities contain a degree of risk, but why should an evening in a chess club present a higher risk of infection than an evening in a restaurant?
It doesn't. However a restaurant has a manager to enforce the `rule of six` and ask people to leave if they refuse to comply. Also they can be held accountable if they deliberately turn a blind eye to it. If a chess club continues to meet who has that accountability? How do you deal with that one person every chess club has who will blithely wander around to see what's happening on other boards despite being told to stay in their group of six?

It's also worth noting that the organisers of Northumberland didn't have to clear anything with the ECF but with their local authority. The practicalities of the event will vary from venue to venue (not least the capacity) so how is the ECF supposed to give generic advice about running events.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:18 pm
by Sean Parker
Paul Robert Jackson wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 am
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:28 am
Paul Robert Jackson wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:26 am


I think its normal budget is closer to £160,000.
Well, I've paid £39 of that for 2020-21
Current Gold Member as well
.....just being optimistic that the ECF would share some up to date information with its members.
Fair comment.

Re: Membership Renewal

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:26 pm
by John Reyes
Sean Parker wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:18 pm
Paul Robert Jackson wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:33 am
Tim Spanton wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:28 am


Well, I've paid £39 of that for 2020-21
Current Gold Member as well
.....just being optimistic that the ECF would share some up to date information with its members.
Fair comment.

i think they will published something before the AGM as no one know how covid will effect the ECF and now after boris announcement today, i don't think OTB will happen now in 2020!!