Local Online Leagues

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Simon Rogers
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Simon Rogers » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:02 pm

The Blackpool and Fylde League, have an online chess league, comprising of two divisions.
Online Division 1: Heywood 1, Preston, Lytham, Poulton.
Online Division 2: Bare and Lancaster, Leyland 1,
Leyland 2, Heywood 2.
Teams of 4. Home and Away fixtures. Away team has white on odds.
No league fees. Games will not be ECF online rated.
There are friendly online individual competitions.
Also, two Swiss Tournament events.
More details on the Blackpool and Fylde League website.

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Chris Goodall » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:29 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:31 pm
Hok Yin Stephen Chiu wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:01 pm
We will not be rating it online, it is hard enough to encourage Clubs to stay active and cohesive, let alone telling people to pay for online chess, which they can get for free on lichess, and chess . com.
What is this heresy?! :D

Would either of your competitions like to have online ratings calculated anyway, for free? I can do that. I have spare bandwidth right now thanks to, y'know, NE lockdown and no OTB league to organise.
Coventry season 1:
1 Peter J B ----------- 223 [11] was 221E (+2)
2 Dan-Alexandru D -- 216 [23] was 221D (-5)
3 Mark E P ------------- 192 [30] was 195A (-3)
4 Thomas G T ---------- 184 [30] was 182A (+2)
5 Joshua P ------------- 177 [30] was 184A (-7)
6 Lionel R ------------- 177 [30] was 174A (+3)
7 Simeon B ------------- 170 [30] was 168C (+2)
8 Paul R D ------------- 169 [17] was 172D (-3)
9 Anthony J G -------- 169 [30] was 173A (-4)
10 Colin J G ----------- 169 [30] was 169C (0)
11 James I G K -------- 167 [21] was 173D (-6)
12 Andy W ---------------- 163 [30] was 163C (0)
13 Jonathan F ---------- 161 [30] was 159C (+2)
14 Bernard J C -------- 161 [30] was 165C (-4)
15 Mike J D ------------- 157 [30] was 164A (-7)
16 Sam C ----------------- 157 [30] was 148B (+9)
17 Ben G ----------------- 155 [30] was 151A (+4)
18 Saravanna Bava M - 151 [30] was 146C (+5)
19 Arjun P -------------- 147 [30] was 142C (+5)
20 Daniel M M ---------- 146 [19] was 149D (-3)
21 Ed H G ---------------- 143 [30] was 153A (-10)
22 Simon T -------------- 139 [30] was 150B (-11)
23 James M -------------- 136 [19] was 137D (-1)
24 Max C ----------------- 136 [7] was 143F (-7)
25 Kate M D ------------- 133 [30] was 135C (-2)
26 Benjamin J L ------- 131 [11] was 129E (+2)
27 Sam J H -------------- 127 [21] was 129D (-2)
28 Vincenz B ----------- 125 [19] was 99E (+26)
29 Sam F ----------------- 125 [13] was 122E (+3)
30 Nigel M -------------- 119 [30] was 126C (-7)
31 John J R ------------- 119 [30] was 117C (+2)
32 Mike J J ------------- 117 [30] was 117A (0)
33 Jaspar G ------------- 117 [30] was 116C (1)
34 Chun C ---------------- 116 [21] was 111D (+5)
35 Billy F -------------- 113 [23] was 115D (-2)
36 David R -------------- 113 [30] was 119A (-6)
37 Jack H ---------------- 111 [23] was 113D (-2)
38 Peter S -------------- 110 [30] was 112C (-2)
39 Matthew C ----------- 110 [21] was 112D (-2)
40 Maclain O ----------- 109 [9] was 83F (+26)
41 Thomas G ------------- 108 [17] was 91E (+17)
42 Stephen B ----------- 104 [21] was 104D (0)
43 John B H ------------- 101 [30] was 106C (-5)
44 Matthew S S -------- 96 [11] was 89E (+7)
45 Ziad O F ------------- 90 [13] was 76E (+14)
46 Hok C ----------------- 86 [19] was 76E (+10)
47 Jiri S ---------------- 83 [19] was 91D (-8)
48 Trevor R ------------- 73 [8] was ungraded (+73)
49 Pavel S -------------- 61 [8] was ungraded (+61)
50 Joseph M ------------- 57 [2] was ungraded (+57)
51 Henry W -------------- 55 [11] was 45F (+10)
52 John Joe T ---------- 9 [2] was ungraded (+9)
53 Chris W -------------- 0 [2] was ungraded (0)
54 Jonathan U ---------- 0 [2] was ungraded (0)
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Chris Goodall » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:53 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:02 pm
The Blackpool and Fylde League, have an online chess league, comprising of two divisions.
Online Division 1: Heywood 1, Preston, Lytham, Poulton.
Online Division 2: Bare and Lancaster, Leyland 1,
Leyland 2, Heywood 2.
Teams of 4. Home and Away fixtures. Away team has white on odds.
No league fees. Games will not be ECF online rated.
There are friendly online individual competitions.
Also, two Swiss Tournament events.
More details on the Blackpool and Fylde League website.
Found you on LMS. Did a little copy-paste and knocked up some live grades from the matches so far:

1 David A P ----------- 187 [30] was 182B (+5)
2 Roy E ----------------- 179 [30] was 181A (-2)
3 Malcolm R P -------- 179 [30] was 183A (-4)
4 John G C ------------- 167 [30] was 166C (1)
5 Phillip J T -------- 166 [30] was 168B (-2)
6 Kyle P ---------------- 161 [30] was 162A (-1)
7 Danny M -------------- 156 [18] was 159D (-3)
8 Oleg C ---------------- 155 [30] was 154C (1)
9 Ben F ----------------- 152 [30] was 152B (0)
10 Philip N R ---------- 151 [30] was 145C (+6)
11 Kenny Q -------------- 150 [10] was 156E (-6)
12 Phillip T S -------- 149 [30] was 149B (0)
13 Geoffrey P ---------- 147 [30] was 142C (+5)
14 John A ---------------- 146 [30] was 148C (-2)
15 S F -------------------- 144 [18] was 144D (0)
16 Matthew W ----------- 144 [12] was 142E (+2)
17 David E A ----------- 137 [30] was 143A (-6)
18 Carl A T ------------- 136 [30] was 133C (+3)
19 Dave S A ------------- 135 [30] was 135A (0)
20 David Malcolm I -- 128 [30] was 134B (-6)
21 William J M -------- 127 [30] was 127C (0)
22 Paul N F ------------- 126 [30] was 126B (0)
23 David T -------------- 126 [17] was 124D (+2)
24 Steven M F ---------- 120 [30] was 121A (-1)
25 Robert T ------------- 119 [30] was 118B (+1)
26 H G -------------------- 116 [7] was 98F (+18)
27 Peter H -------------- 115 [30] was 116A (-1)
28 Ian M ----------------- 114 [30] was 114A (0)
29 Andre C -------------- 111 [30] was 111B (0)
30 Steve G H ----------- 110 [17] was 109D (1)
31 Peter H -------------- 109 [30] was 110B (-1)
32 Andrew R D ---------- 99 [30] was 102A (-3)
33 David R L ----------- 97 [16] was 93D (+4)
34 Ken L ----------------- 97 [30] was 94A (+3)
35 T John C ------------- 96 [30] was 99C (-3)
36 David G C ----------- 93 [17] was 95D (-2)
37 Harrison C ---------- 87 [30] was 80C (+7)
38 Marvin C ------------- 85 [6] was 91F (-7)
39 John A M ------------- 67 [30] was 66C (+1)
40 G B -------------------- 65 [6] was 67F (-2)
41 W Douglas M -------- 59 [30] was 58C (+1)
42 Geoff K -------------- 50 [11] was 54E (-4)
43 Michael W ----------- 45 [17] was 43D (+2)
44 Joshua W ------------- 42 [30] was 43B (-2)
45 Martin C ------------- 33 [16] was 36D (-3)
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

Hok Yin Stephen Chiu
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Hok Yin Stephen Chiu » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:47 am

Many thanks!
Chris Goodall wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:29 pm
Chris Goodall wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:31 pm
Hok Yin Stephen Chiu wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:01 pm
We will not be rating it online, it is hard enough to encourage Clubs to stay active and cohesive, let alone telling people to pay for online chess, which they can get for free on lichess, and chess . com.
What is this heresy?! :D

Would either of your competitions like to have online ratings calculated anyway, for free? I can do that. I have spare bandwidth right now thanks to, y'know, NE lockdown and no OTB league to organise.
Coventry season 1:
1 Peter J B ----------- 223 [11] was 221E (+2)
2 Dan-Alexandru D -- 216 [23] was 221D (-5)
3 Mark E P ------------- 192 [30] was 195A (-3)
4 Thomas G T ---------- 184 [30] was 182A (+2)
5 Joshua P ------------- 177 [30] was 184A (-7)
6 Lionel R ------------- 177 [30] was 174A (+3)
7 Simeon B ------------- 170 [30] was 168C (+2)
8 Paul R D ------------- 169 [17] was 172D (-3)
9 Anthony J G -------- 169 [30] was 173A (-4)
10 Colin J G ----------- 169 [30] was 169C (0)
11 James I G K -------- 167 [21] was 173D (-6)
12 Andy W ---------------- 163 [30] was 163C (0)
13 Jonathan F ---------- 161 [30] was 159C (+2)
14 Bernard J C -------- 161 [30] was 165C (-4)
15 Mike J D ------------- 157 [30] was 164A (-7)
16 Sam C ----------------- 157 [30] was 148B (+9)
17 Ben G ----------------- 155 [30] was 151A (+4)
18 Saravanna Bava M - 151 [30] was 146C (+5)
19 Arjun P -------------- 147 [30] was 142C (+5)
20 Daniel M M ---------- 146 [19] was 149D (-3)
21 Ed H G ---------------- 143 [30] was 153A (-10)
22 Simon T -------------- 139 [30] was 150B (-11)
23 James M -------------- 136 [19] was 137D (-1)
24 Max C ----------------- 136 [7] was 143F (-7)
25 Kate M D ------------- 133 [30] was 135C (-2)
26 Benjamin J L ------- 131 [11] was 129E (+2)
27 Sam J H -------------- 127 [21] was 129D (-2)
28 Vincenz B ----------- 125 [19] was 99E (+26)
29 Sam F ----------------- 125 [13] was 122E (+3)
30 Nigel M -------------- 119 [30] was 126C (-7)
31 John J R ------------- 119 [30] was 117C (+2)
32 Mike J J ------------- 117 [30] was 117A (0)
33 Jaspar G ------------- 117 [30] was 116C (1)
34 Chun C ---------------- 116 [21] was 111D (+5)
35 Billy F -------------- 113 [23] was 115D (-2)
36 David R -------------- 113 [30] was 119A (-6)
37 Jack H ---------------- 111 [23] was 113D (-2)
38 Peter S -------------- 110 [30] was 112C (-2)
39 Matthew C ----------- 110 [21] was 112D (-2)
40 Maclain O ----------- 109 [9] was 83F (+26)
41 Thomas G ------------- 108 [17] was 91E (+17)
42 Stephen B ----------- 104 [21] was 104D (0)
43 John B H ------------- 101 [30] was 106C (-5)
44 Matthew S S -------- 96 [11] was 89E (+7)
45 Ziad O F ------------- 90 [13] was 76E (+14)
46 Hok C ----------------- 86 [19] was 76E (+10)
47 Jiri S ---------------- 83 [19] was 91D (-8)
48 Trevor R ------------- 73 [8] was ungraded (+73)
49 Pavel S -------------- 61 [8] was ungraded (+61)
50 Joseph M ------------- 57 [2] was ungraded (+57)
51 Henry W -------------- 55 [11] was 45F (+10)
52 John Joe T ---------- 9 [2] was ungraded (+9)
53 Chris W -------------- 0 [2] was ungraded (0)
54 Jonathan U ---------- 0 [2] was ungraded (0)
Delegate for Coventry & District, and Leamington & District
Vice Chair @ Coventry and District Chess League | former-President @ Warwick University Chess
Celebrating 100 Years of the Coventry & District Chess League 1919-2019

Simon Rogers
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Simon Rogers » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:20 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:53 pm
Simon Rogers wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:02 pm
The Blackpool and Fylde League, have an online chess league, comprising of two divisions.
Online Division 1: Heywood 1, Preston, Lytham, Poulton.
Online Division 2: Bare and Lancaster, Leyland 1,
Leyland 2, Heywood 2.
Teams of 4. Home and Away fixtures. Away team has white on odds.
No league fees. Games will not be ECF online rated.
There are friendly online individual competitions.
Also, two Swiss Tournament events.
More details on the Blackpool and Fylde League website.
Found you on LMS. Did a little copy-paste and knocked up some live grades from the matches so far:

1 David A P ----------- 187 [30] was 182B (+5)
2 Roy E ----------------- 179 [30] was 181A (-2)
3 Malcolm R P -------- 179 [30] was 183A (-4)
4 John G C ------------- 167 [30] was 166C (1)
5 Phillip J T -------- 166 [30] was 168B (-2)
6 Kyle P ---------------- 161 [30] was 162A (-1)
7 Danny M -------------- 156 [18] was 159D (-3)
8 Oleg C ---------------- 155 [30] was 154C (1)
9 Ben F ----------------- 152 [30] was 152B (0)
10 Philip N R ---------- 151 [30] was 145C (+6)
11 Kenny Q -------------- 150 [10] was 156E (-6)
12 Phillip T S -------- 149 [30] was 149B (0)
13 Geoffrey P ---------- 147 [30] was 142C (+5)
14 John A ---------------- 146 [30] was 148C (-2)
15 S F -------------------- 144 [18] was 144D (0)
16 Matthew W ----------- 144 [12] was 142E (+2)
17 David E A ----------- 137 [30] was 143A (-6)
18 Carl A T ------------- 136 [30] was 133C (+3)
19 Dave S A ------------- 135 [30] was 135A (0)
20 David Malcolm I -- 128 [30] was 134B (-6)
21 William J M -------- 127 [30] was 127C (0)
22 Paul N F ------------- 126 [30] was 126B (0)
23 David T -------------- 126 [17] was 124D (+2)
24 Steven M F ---------- 120 [30] was 121A (-1)
25 Robert T ------------- 119 [30] was 118B (+1)
26 H G -------------------- 116 [7] was 98F (+18)
27 Peter H -------------- 115 [30] was 116A (-1)
28 Ian M ----------------- 114 [30] was 114A (0)
29 Andre C -------------- 111 [30] was 111B (0)
30 Steve G H ----------- 110 [17] was 109D (1)
31 Peter H -------------- 109 [30] was 110B (-1)
32 Andrew R D ---------- 99 [30] was 102A (-3)
33 David R L ----------- 97 [16] was 93D (+4)
34 Ken L ----------------- 97 [30] was 94A (+3)
35 T John C ------------- 96 [30] was 99C (-3)
36 David G C ----------- 93 [17] was 95D (-2)
37 Harrison C ---------- 87 [30] was 80C (+7)
38 Marvin C ------------- 85 [6] was 91F (-7)
39 John A M ------------- 67 [30] was 66C (+1)
40 G B -------------------- 65 [6] was 67F (-2)
41 W Douglas M -------- 59 [30] was 58C (+1)
42 Geoff K -------------- 50 [11] was 54E (-4)
43 Michael W ----------- 45 [17] was 43D (+2)
44 Joshua W ------------- 42 [30] was 43B (-2)
45 Martin C ------------- 33 [16] was 36D (-3)
Brilliant. Thank you Chris. Much appreciated.

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:40 am

Coventry first 3 rounds:

1 Oscar P -------------- 195 [30] was 195B (0)
2 Donald J M ---------- 191 [30] was 192A (-1)
3 Mark E P ------------- 189 [30] was 192 [30] (-3)
4 Anish G -------------- 188 [2] was ungraded [0] (+188)
5 Iain A G ------------- 184 [30] was 190C (-6)
6 Mircea-Marius M -- 183 [19] was 183D (0)
7 Luke Newell ------------- 181 [4] was ungraded [0] (+181)
8 Joshua P ------------- 179 [30] was 177 [30] (+2)
9 Lionel R ------------- 178 [30] was 177 [30] (+1)
10 Georgi P ------------- 178 [2] was ungraded [0] (+178)
11 Vihaan N ------------- 178 [2] was ungraded [0] (+178)
12 Luke Nelson ------------- 177 [30] was 175C (+2)
13 John M ---------------- 175 [30] was 172B (+3)
14 Neil J O ------------- 172 [17] was 167D (+5)
15 Colin J G ----------- 172 [30] was 169 [30] (+3)
16 Anthony J G -------- 172 [30] was 169 [30] (+3)
17 Anuman G ------------- 169 [2] was ungraded [0] (+169)
18 Jude S ---------------- 166 [30] was 164A (+2)
19 Simeon B ------------- 166 [30] was 170 [30] (-4)
20 Wilfred A ----------- 166 [4] was ungraded [0] (+166)
21 Tom D ----------------- 165 [30] was 167C (-2)
22 Mike J D ------------- 163 [30] was 157 [30] (+6)
23 Joe V ----------------- 161 [30] was 150A (+11)
24 Jonathan F ---------- 161 [30] was 161 [30] (0)
25 Sam C ----------------- 160 [30] was 157 [30] (+3)
26 Andy W ---------------- 160 [30] was 163 [30] (-3)
27 Bernard J C -------- 159 [30] was 161 [30] (-2)
28 Manvith S ----------- 159 [30] was 161A (-2)
29 Anthony J ----------- 159 [4] was ungraded [0] (+159)
30 Liam R ---------------- 157 [6] was ungraded [0] (+157)
31 Marek J S ----------- 156 [30] was 159B (-3)
32 Andrew N L ---------- 155 [17] was 154D (+1)
33 Ervins R ------------- 152 [6] was ungraded [0] (+152)
34 Ben G ----------------- 149 [30] was 155 [30] (-6)
35 David J S ----------- 148 [30] was 147C (1)
36 Saravanna Bava M - 146 [30] was 151 [30] (-5)
37 Arjun P -------------- 145 [30] was 147 [30] (-2)
38 Simon T -------------- 142 [30] was 139 [30] (+3)
39 Nathan B ------------- 142 [2] was ungraded [0] (+142)
40 Ed H G ---------------- 141 [30] was 143 [30] (-2)
41 Gordon SG C -------- 140 [30] was 145B (-5)
42 James L -------------- 140 [30] was 143C (-3)
43 Robert M ------------- 138 [30] was 140B (-2)
44 Bernard A R -------- 136 [11] was 138E (-2)
45 Warrick S ----------- 136 [19] was 133D (+3)
46 Kate M D ------------- 135 [30] was 133 [30] (+2)
47 Daniel J ------------- 135 [7] was 111F (+24)
48 Vincenz B ----------- 130 [23] was 125 [19] (+5)
49 Marek Z -------------- 128 [30] was 131C (-3)
50 William M ----------- 127 [17] was 128D (-1)
51 Peter M S ----------- 126 [19] was 128D (-2)
52 Tom T ----------------- 124 [6] was ungraded [0] (+124)
53 Dillon P ------------- 124 [4] was ungraded [0] (+124)
54 Khosrov H ----------- 124 [2] was ungraded [0] (+124)
55 Chun C ---------------- 123 [27] was 116 [21] (+7)
56 Robert B ------------- 123 [30] was 119C (+4)
57 John J R ------------- 122 [30] was 119 [30] (+3)
58 Arnold P ------------- 122 [30] was 124C (-2)
59 David M -------------- 119 [2] was ungraded [0] (+119)
60 Naqi N ---------------- 119 [2] was ungraded [0] (+119)
61 Mike J J ------------- 119 [30] was 117 [30] (+2)
62 Frank C J ----------- 118 [30] was 124B (-6)
63 David F -------------- 117 [30] was 116C (1)
64 David R -------------- 116 [30] was 113 [30] (+3)
65 Peter S -------------- 116 [30] was 119C (-3)
66 Kim T G -------------- 115 [30] was 117B (-2)
67 Billy F -------------- 113 [27] was 113 [23] (0)
68 Maclain O ----------- 111 [11] was 109 [9] (+2)
69 Paul D ---------------- 111 [30] was 109C (+2)
70 Thomas G ------------- 110 [21] was 108 [17] (+2)
71 Roger B -------------- 110 [30] was 106B (+4)
72 Malcolm S H -------- 109 [30] was 109B (0)
73 Peter S -------------- 107 [30] was 110 [30] (-3)
74 Solomon H ----------- 107 [17] was 106D (1)
75 Simon W -------------- 105 [30] was 103B (+2)
76 Stephen B ----------- 104 [25] was 104 [21] (0)
77 Thomas P ------------- 101 [4] was ungraded [0] (+101)
78 Samson M ------------- 101 [13] was 94E (+7)
79 Adrian G ------------- 101 [30] was 97C (+4)
80 Daniel G ------------- 100 [11] was 98E (+2)
81 John B H ------------- 98 [30] was 101 [30] (-3)
82 Amar B ---------------- 97 [2] was ungraded [0] (+97)
83 Richard B ----------- 96 [30] was 101B (-5)
84 Margarita N -------- 95 [30] was 96A (-1)
85 Cass S ---------------- 92 [2] was ungraded [0] (+92)
86 Barry K -------------- 91 [30] was 99B (-8)
87 Jacob P -------------- 91 [2] was ungraded [0] (+91)
88 Vassily M S -------- 85 [21] was 78D (+7)
89 Igor S ---------------- 83 [2] was ungraded [0] (+83)
90 Rhys D ---------------- 83 [2] was ungraded [0] (+83)
91 Jiri S ---------------- 82 [23] was 83 [19] (-1)
92 Trevor R ------------- 82 [12] was 73 [8] (+9)
93 Daniel M ------------- 81 [9] was 59F (+22)
94 Hok C ----------------- 81 [21] was 86 [19] (-5)
95 Richard S ----------- 74 [30] was 76B (-2)
96 Sarim P -------------- 69 [2] was ungraded [0] (+69)
97 Henry W -------------- 64 [13] was 55 [11] (+9)
98 Dwight R ------------- 63 [4] was ungraded [0] (+63)
99 Alex W ---------------- 62 [4] was ungraded [0] (+62)
100 Richard F ----------- 59 [2] was ungraded [0] (+59)
101 Geoffry G B -------- 59 [19] was 58D (1)
102 Pavels S ------------- 56 [14] was 61 [8] (-5)
103 Ezekiel Houyan H - 54 [30] was 56A (-2)
104 Frank C -------------- 51 [7] was 47F (+4)
105 Batoor G ------------- 48 [2] was ungraded [0] (+48)
106 Gary C ---------------- 9 [2] was ungraded [0] (+9)
107 Oskar G -------------- 3 [2] was ungraded [0] (+3)

I came across a quirk of the Clarke system:
Estimating a starting Grade for an ungraded player (or a junior)
A Rapid grade, where available, will be used in default of a Standard grade; and vice versa. If the player has no grade at all, a starting grade is calculated as follows, using all their games in the latest three years (for adults) or one year (for juniors), inclusive of the current year.

Stage 1 is to calculate a 'grade' for each ungraded player on all their games against graded opponents in the relevant period. The 40-point rule is not used. If all their opponents are graded, it stops there and Stage 2 is omitted. The result will be used as their starting grade.
So if you had a player who lost to five 100s, their starting grade without the 40-point rule would be 50. But then when the grading algorithm proper was run, the 40-point rule would kick in, and the grades of their 5 opponents would be pulled down to 90, which would pull their own final grade down to 40. They would get their opponents' grades minus 60, instead of minus 50.

I've made the assumption that that wasn't intended, and that Stage 1 should read "The result will be used as their final grade".
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:06 am

It was intended.

Brian Valentine
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Brian Valentine » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 am

Under the 40 point rule each opponent would score 110 for their win, they are not pulled down.

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:48 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 am
Under the 40 point rule each opponent would score 110 for their win, they are not pulled down.
Sorry, that's me being terribly unclear. The pulling down refers to the fact that, for the new player with a "starting grade" of 50, the effective grade of their opponents would be 90. They're in the same boat as a player who has a grade of 50 from the previous year.

If you plot initial grade against % score, you can see the problem. A new player who scores 50% against 5 opponents graded 100, gets an initial grade of 100. A new player who scores only 30%, gets a grade of 80. One less percentage point = one less grade point, all the way down to a score of 10%, which gets you a grade of 60.

But if there was an error in recording a result, and instead of scoring 10% you scored 0%, your grade would drop not by 10 points, but by 20. There's a bump in the graph.

Score Grade
50% 100
40% 90
30% 80
20% 70
10% 60
0% 40

In fact, every percentage point between 0 and 10 is worth double. So if you played 11 people graded 100 and scored 9%, your first grade would be 58, not 59.

The same effect happens when you have a real grade - if all you ever do is lose to GMs, your grade will deflate by 10 points per season, or per half-season, or whatever the grading period is. (Which arguably makes your grade too sensitive to the length of the grading period and/or the keenness of your local grader.) But that can be sort-of justified on the grounds that you've acquired some new information about the player. You haven't acquired any new information about a player that scores 0% against a group of 100s, in between giving them this phantom starting grade of 50, and revising it down to 40 in the final list. You've graded the exact same set of games twice.

This is completely irrelevant to anyone but me since the Clarke system is ootra windae. In fact, feel free to use this as further evidence that Elo is superior!
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:49 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:48 pm
In fact, feel free to use this as further evidence that Elo is superior!
Elo systems cope badly with players scoring 0%. So much so that the FIDE version won't calculate anything until a player scores something. I believe the new ECF version uses the concept of a dummy drawn game to artificially award an initial half point and set a reference point.

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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Simon Rogers » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:59 am

Poulton have won the Blackpool & Fylde Online League with a game to spare. There are still games to be played in Division 2. My guess is a new online League will commence in January. There seems to be interest for a second Poulton team to play in Division 2.

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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:51 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:49 pm
Elo systems cope badly with players scoring 0%.
All systems cope badly with players scoring 0%. Some know better than to try.
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by John Upham » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:59 pm

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Nick Grey
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Surely all grades are 3 or 4 digits.

John Upham
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Re: Local Online Leagues

Post by John Upham » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm
Surely all grades are 3 or 4 digits.
Is that apart from the ones that are single or double digit?
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