Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Paul Cooksey
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:30 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:20 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:50 pm

I don't agree with the strategic direction Mike set, I did agree with Phil. Noone on this forum should be surprised I favour ECF reform. But that wasn't really the point I was making. Almost everyone involved in the ECF in 2021 was involved in 2015....
Possibly true with council but the board is very different. I can think of no more than four (Clissold, Holowczak, Pein (elected in 2015), Lawson) who have been there since or before 2015. From the time I escaped in 2014 only Alex (as Home Director) & Julian remain.
Another point I will concede. But I don't think many of the people on the board are entirely new to the ECF, and certainly not English Chess organisation.

There are some new people on the Board who I consider very competent, but some others who have stepped down who were very competent too. I could name 1 or 2 I think weren't, but only 1 or 2. (I feel I should clarify Lawrence himself not on that list!)

Mick Norris
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:06 pm
For what it's worth I don't think Phil was a liar as such, just strangely disconnected from the idea that what he said had any requirement to be accurate or that anybody had a reasonable expectation of this being so. The fact that his written English tended to the impenetrable didn't help here either.
Ah yes, we had classics like
2016.09.05 Phil Ehr ECF Nomination Request.pdf
(177.42 KiB) Downloaded 128 times
and
2016.09 philehrmanifestoFD.pdf
(346.23 KiB) Downloaded 101 times

I was at the 2011 AGM where Phil stood against Sabrina for Junior Director; he spoke well, and unfortunately she didn't, and it's not just Paul that can confirm publicly he voted for Phil, I did at that meeting

Phil narrowly beat Sabrina, and the ECF would have been a lot different if he had lost I think
Last edited by Mick Norris on Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm

"He did indeed, but he switched to democrat because of his particular antipathy to Donald Trump. Did him no good when his constituency association (or whatever Americans term it) discovered details of his time in the ECF :-("

I recall being contacted by a woman in Florida, who had tracked me down as a chess person and she politely asked if I had any dirt on Phil Ehr, as she didn't want him to be elected and had heard he had upset people in the chess world. I suggested that she search the forum and (truthfully) said I had no direct knowledge of him - if she looked here, she might have found someone less reticent.

It's not unusual for people to change parties if they think there's an advantage, some have even changed from Communist Party to Liberal Democrat.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:35 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:06 pm
For what it's worth I don't think Phil was a liar as such, just strangely disconnected from the idea that what he said had any requirement to be accurate or that anybody had a reasonable expectation of this being so. The fact that his written English tended to the impenetrable didn't help here either.
Ah yes, we had classics like 2016.09.05 Phil Ehr ECF Nomination Request.pdf and 2016.09 philehrmanifestoFD.pdf
God yes, remarkable
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:42 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
Phil narrowly beat Sabrina, and the ECF would have been a lot different if he had lost I think
I'm not sure, I nearly noted earlier that the parent led approach advocated by Phil remains in place, and was not the thing Alex was being challenged on. A pity Sabrina did not win, since she might have been more involved in English chess now than either she or Phil is. BUt in terms of policy, maybe we would be in the same place.

I think Phil can be characterised as successful Junior Director and unsuccessful CEO. Which I think means it was more about policy than personal competence.

In passing, I think my opinion of Phil's documents very different to most peoples because I work for a multinational and you become fluent in American corporate speak whether you want to be or not. At the time it did not occur to me it was so impenetrable until Justin pointed it out, but it seemed a fair comment when he did. But if you can get past that and look at the content, some things I agree with and regret no one is currently advocating

David Sedgwick
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:45 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:33 pm
I recall being contacted by a woman in Florida, who had tracked me down as a chess person and she politely asked if I had any dirt on Phil Ehr, as she didn't want him to be elected and had heard he had upset people in the chess world. I suggested that she search the forum and (truthfully) said I had no direct knowledge of him - if she looked here, she might have found someone less reticent.
David Sedgwick (in another thread) wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:33 am
Mick Norris wrote:Meet Phil
That impressive sounding CV led many of us to rush to embrace his candidature when he first stood for election to the ECF Board.

Hopefully, the good citizens of Florida's First Congressional District will learn from our mistake.
I think that it was the above post of mine that sparked this off.

The power of Google led to my comments being discovered on the other side of the pond. Naively, that was something which I had not anticipated.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:55 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:50 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:06 pm
For what it's worth I don't think Phil was a liar as such, just strangely disconnected from the idea that what he said had any requirement to be accurate or that anybody had a reasonable expectation of this being so. The fact that his written English tended to the impenetrable didn't help here either.
My feeling is he did not consider the question very important because he did not think there was any chance of wrong doing by the tournament organiser. He probably handled that matter worse than Mike Truran would. Almost certainly Mike would have handled the FIDE issue Roger raises better, given Phil wasn't a chess player.

I don't agree with the strategic direction Mike set, I did agree with Phil. Noone on this forum should be surprised I favour ECF reform. But that wasn't really the point I was making. Almost everyone involved in the ECF in 2021 was involved in 2015, so even if Mike is personally more competent than Phil, on the whole it is the same people with the same level of competence.

Most of the people involved in the ECF now voted for Phil a few times, even if I am the only one who publicly remembers doing it. You can certainly say that he was unsuccessful as CEO, albeit after a successful stint as junior director but calling him inept is unfair. You can definitely say he was unpopular by the time he left. But I think most of that because he was trying to change the ECF in ways the ECF did not want to be changed.

I'm talking about this not because I have any residual loyalty to Phil, but because I don't think either Mike or Tim is a wrong'un. I think characterising Phil as a wrong'un plays into the narrative there is always a bad guy to be unmasked.

I hate the way the campaign against Mike Truran is being organised, and called it out here and in Council. But that is the kind of campaign we get if we allow an ECF culture where whenever there is a contested election we assume there is a good guy and a bad guy and our job is to work out which is which.
That's all very sensible and, if my comments about the previous CEO were a distraction, then I apologise but I was attempting to draw a contrast between past and present CEO's with the "Be careful what you wish for" adage very much in mind.

I don't know Tim Wall personally and it may be that, in person, he is a charming individual. Among his claims to fame are an attempt to be elected as MP for North Tyneside when his Crowdfunder CV, presumably approved by himself, described him as " ...a lifelong socialist who first joined the Labour Party Young Socialists at age 18, and immediately got involved in the campaign to support the miners in their epic struggle with the Thatcher government in 1984-85. He has worked as a journalist for the last 18 years, in the UK, Russia and Azerbaijan, and is currently a website editor for Russia Today TV (RT) ..." and as a member of the Socialist Party of England and Wales, which most would describe as Trotskyist.

With that background, it's no wonder that he was assessed as politically sound enough to work for the state-owned RT. I've read elsewhere that Tim is sympathetic to the anti-Putin movement in Russia but, given that his personal freedoms there don't appear to have been curtailed and he apparently continues to work for RT, one is perhaps entitled to view that with polite scepticism. Everyone in the UK is entitled to their political opinions but I don't feel it unfair to suggest that Tim's beliefs do not characterise him as any friend of British institutions, of which - if one takes a broad view of what constitutes a British institution - the ECF is one.

Now, I'm not seriously suggesting that the ECF is anywhere on Vladimir Putin's hit-list. However, in as much as it represents opposition to its Russian counterpart, he has no reason to wish it well. I'm the first to concede that this is all rather circumstantial but the sight of a committed member of the hard left sowing discord among ECF members with comments which at best are tendentious and at worst gross distortions leaves me uneasy as to motives. I hope I'm wrong, and very likely I am, but I really don't want to risk finding out the hard way.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:13 pm

That is a very ludicrous posting. Disgraceful, in fact.
"Do you play chess?"
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:20 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:13 pm
That is a very ludicrous posting. Disgraceful, in fact.
I think I've already acknowledged that it's entirely possible that I'm wrong but perhaps I might invite your explanation as to Tim's behaviour and comments here and elsewhere.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 pm

You're not entitled to any explanation. It's a bizarre paranoid fantasy on your part and nobody should do you the favour of discussing it.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 pm

Characteristic Justin - no explanation, as usual.

Paul Buswell
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Paul Buswell » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:58 am
"Michael has said 90 members voted, so out of 2300 that's a very low turnout"

If only 4 % bother to vote, that's scarcely a ringing endorsement. On the other hand, most of the 2300 probably have no idea who any of the candidates is.
All silver members received a notification of the election by email with the election addresses attached.
(EDIT: Obviously there may be errors and I believe a very small number where we do not have an email contact)
Do we know what action was taken to ballot members without e-mail, and how many such there may be? (UI did put this question to the ECF office a week ago but no reply or acknowledgement so far)

The ECF does not have my e-mail for its membership admin' so I, for one, heard nothing.

PB

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 pm
Characteristic Justin - no explanation, as usual.
It comes across as just a tad McCarthyite to me too, tbh.

The organisations referred to are not proscribed, still less illegal.
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:05 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 pm
Characteristic Justin - no explanation, as usual.
It comes across as just a tad McCarthyite to me too, tbh.

The organisations referred to are not proscribed, still less illegal.
I hoped I made that clear ["Everyone in the UK is entitled to their political opinions"] but, if I didn't, I'm very happy to acknowledge that the organisations are neither proscribed nor illegal, nor is there any stigma attached to membership - just that membership is indicative of beliefs.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Is Positive Change Coming To English Chess?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:18 pm

Accusing somebody else of being potentially the agent of a foreign power isn't just morally obnoxious, it's manifestly defamatory, as indeed (on reputational grounds alone) would be the suggestion that somebody has the hidden motive of damaging a British institution for subversive purposes.

Yes, of course it's McCarthyite, and more than a tad, but it's also monumentally stupid.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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