Members' Representation

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:19 am

Once again
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:35 pm
Incidentally can I suggest that if anybody wishes to discuss OMOV they may like to start a new thread for the purpose? This thread was plainly started to talk about not that, but the remarkable conduct of Members' representatives, and there is no obviously good reason for that subject to be buried by another one.
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David Gilbert
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Gilbert » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:24 pm
Should I change this to Malcolms reps not Members reps?
Maybe not. I hesitated to include the nomination of Mike Truran by the Platinum representative because the name on the sheet isn't the Platinum representative. I drew this to Michael Farthing's attention yesterday and he's going to make the correction, but I'm not sure whether it's the name or the organisation that will change - maybe both?

The Reps seem to have forgotten who they represent. What is wrong with these people. They need to understand they don't represent themselves, they represent us, the members. Instead they believe they have carte blanche to act with total independence and they can give the rest of us the brush off. That breaks the spirit of what they're supposed to stand for. I suggest that some serious thought ought given to developing clear ground rules for the Reps behaviour or scrap the whole idea of members representation because at the moment it definitely ain't working.

Mick Norris
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:59 am

Or maybe David get people to stand against them for election?

The silver members re-elected John Reyes despite Tim endorsing another candidate, and Tim did get the most votes; there's now criticism of John which appears to be precisely because he's the type of rep you seem to want (and me too, FWIW)
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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:00 am

OMOV favours candidates that live close to the meeting venue; proxy harvesting favours candidates that live far away.

So do both! Count the proxies as currently, and give one extra vote to everyone in the room.
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Michael Farthing
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:01 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:00 am
OMOV favours candidates that live close to the meeting venue; proxy harvesting favours candidates that live far away.

So do both! Count the proxies as currently, and give one extra vote to everyone in the room.
That, however, would be illegal :-(

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John Upham
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:10 pm

If voting by ECF members was to occur online where they are authenticated beyond an email alias would

"OMOV favours candidates that live close to the meeting venue"

remain a truism?
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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:39 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:10 pm
If voting by ECF members was to occur online where they are authenticated beyond an email alias would

"OMOV favours candidates that live close to the meeting venue"

remain a truism?
No. It would become a falsism. Would that not also be illegal? In that you're usurping the role of the AGM?
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Stephen Westmoreland
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Stephen Westmoreland » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:52 pm

You can vote online and restrict to email or IP address. For example, in another world where I was elected Silver Rep (which I am eternally thankful I was not), I could have just sent a survey monkey link to members, with restriction in and canvassed opinion for those who responded. Quite easy to do and see the results. Of course better measures would be needed for direct elections.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:22 pm

David Gilbert wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am
Maybe not. I hesitated to include the nomination of Mike Truran by the Platinum representative because the name on the sheet isn't the Platinum representative. I drew this to Michael Farthing's attention yesterday and he's going to make the correction, but I'm not sure whether it's the name or the organisation that will change - maybe both?
Mike Truran was validly nominated by one of the two Platinum Members representatives. There was an error in the Voting Register, which Michael Farthing has now corrected.

Chris Skulte
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Skulte » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:26 am

Hi, thought I would reply to this as someone mentioned to me that there was some strong views on this forum.
I'm currently one of the bronze member reps.

1) I was voted in to represent the interests of Bronze members. As mentioned in my address at the time, I will be taking views in the interests of the bronze member category. (Not passing every decision onto them to vote on)

2) We (myself and Aga) have been open with everyone about how we will vote on all occasions - and feedback is always welcome from members. Yes some people have individual views, which we take on and consider in actions, as we are always looking to learn and grow and consider viewpoints which may have not been thought of. On the flip side of this, individuals often have strong opinions, but you are also one of many bronze members.

3) I nominated Malcolm for two reasons:
i) It is always good to to have some competition for key roles, and will only benefit members having an option on two alternative ways we can vote for.
ii) We put a position forward at the last council meeting regarding maximum length of service for positions. - Which we communicated to the member base on how we will vote (with minimal differing opinions returned), supporting that a change in leadership is useful over a longer period of time.

4) For the upcoming vote, I have spoken to Malcolm, and will speak to Mike this Sunday, and then we will be drafting a message to Bronze members, which will then be taken for consideration prior to the vote, as we have always done.

I don't see how anything poor has been done here, sure everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some of the comments I have seen on this forum are a little extreme....


On the flip side, all of our roles are open to votes, so if bronze members are no longer happy with the way in which I am using their vote (which I think on a side note is very very small number of votes), then there is governance in place where someone else can apply, and they can vote for a new representative.
That being said, not a single person decided to contest representing bronze members, and I put forward my nomination again on the 13th June. (mainly because no one else put their hand up), and as it was uncontested, I was voted in another year.


Hope that helps clarify my views on this.

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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:39 am

Chris Skulte wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:26 am

3) I nominated Malcolm for two reasons:
i) It is always good to to have some competition for key roles, and will only benefit members having an option on two alternative ways we can vote for.
ii) We put a position forward at the last council meeting regarding maximum length of service for positions. - Which we communicated to the member base on how we will vote (with minimal differing opinions returned), supporting that a change in leadership is useful over a longer period of time.
The problem is that the act of nomination is usually regarded as a declaration of support. Anyway Malcolm is already a director, so no new candidates are introduced, other than Malcolm's unknown and as yet hypothetical replacement as International Director.

But is the case that as far as the funds in the PIF are concerned, that Mike advocates conserving them and Malcolm advocates spending them? That may actually be the debate since it would be possible to transfer funds to the Chess Trust and spend then, albeit with restrictions or transfer them to the ECF and conserve them, with some tax disadvantages.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:25 am

Chris Skulte wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:26 am
:
i) It is always good to to have some competition for key roles, and will only benefit members having an option on two alternative ways we can vote for.
Were you under the impression that if you did not nominate Malcolm there would be no competition?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:46 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:25 am
Were you under the impression that if you did not nominate Malcolm there would be no competition?
Neither candidate needed third party nomination in order to stand. As incumbent, Mike automatically stands whilst as a Director Malcolm can nominate himself for any other position, an opportunity used by a retiring director to seek another elected post.

If member representatives are going to involve themselves in nominations and avoid accusations of bias, it would have been better for them to be seen to nominate both candidates.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:06 pm

Meanwhile, of more importance, "How many angels can you place on the head of a needle?". Which, interestingly, (well I think so) has virtually the same answer as "Where did the big bang happen?"

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JustinHorton
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:13 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:06 pm
Meanwhile, of more importance, "How many angels can you place on the head of a needle?".
Not especially, no, Michael. I think for instance it's reasonable to ask whether, in nominating Mike Truran's opponent, while right in the middle of a personal row with Mike Truran, Rob Willmoth had entirely put aside his own feelings and interests and was acting purely in the interests of the members who he did not consult.

I mean what does it look like?
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