Members' Representation

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Nick Ivell
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Nick Ivell » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:34 pm

I thought the intention of the will was financial support for the British Championship.

Nothing else, however much we may wish for it.

Angus French
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Angus French » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:42 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:04 pm
"The intentions of legators cannot just be ignored."

They certainly shouldn't be, but I thought there was disagreement about the contents of JR's will?
Kevin, you said similar on 18 September.
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:04 am
The argument about the John Robinson money (which was an altruistic donation) goes back many years. My understanding was that it was left for "chess", but it was quickly hijacked by a small group who insisted it should be used just for junior chess, and (from memory) they seemed unwilling to produce any accounts or say what they were doing - the usual BCF secrecy. Other bequests just seemed to disappear or create huge arguments.
...and Alex McFarlane and I responded:
Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:39 am
Angus French wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:22 am
Hmm... I'm doubtful that's correct
Most definitely NOT correct.
It is also used to support the British Championships and junior participation at Hastings, two things which John held dear to his heart.

I believe the Trustees hold the independence of these funds close to their hearts too.

Without sounding too much like an American politician, I knew John, and although I had no idea he had so much money or that he was going to leave it to chess (and his church), we had several conversations (which I thought hypothetical) on how he would have liked to promote chess. I firmly believe that the Trustees are following his wishes.
Do you have any information to support your belief - I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm skeptical? (My understanding, FWIW, is based on what I recall David Welch, a friend of John Robinson's and one of the trustees of the JRYCT told the 2016 ECF AGM - unfortunately it wasn't minuted.)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:00 pm

I recall an individual getting cross about the will - whether he had any good reason to do so is another matter!

David Sedgwick
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:03 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:47 pm
If, as I understand, the £154K was left from John Robinson's Will, then it can't be used for purposes not specified by him

There's a fundamental lack of understanding here
Mick and others, please see the thread at viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8988.

On Page 7 Roger de Coverly quotes verbatim Richard Haddrell's report of the meeting which established the John Robinson Trust. On Page 9 I describe the terms of John Robinson's will, a copy of which I had obtained.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Nick Ivell » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:24 pm

I wish I hadn't been directed to that historic thread.

I see the same intemperate rants we have got used to on more recent threads!

Angus French
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Angus French » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:28 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:03 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:47 pm
If, as I understand, the £154K was left from John Robinson's Will, then it can't be used for purposes not specified by him

There's a fundamental lack of understanding here
Mick and others, please see the thread at viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8988.

On Page 7 Roger de Coverly quotes verbatim Richard Haddrell's report of the meeting which established the John Robinson Trust. On Page 9 I describe the terms of John Robinson's will, a copy of which I had obtained.
Thanks David, that's helpful. So there was definite merit in Kevin's recollection. But also I think it matters what friends of John Robinson believe he would have wished. Is that fair?

Angus French
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Angus French » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:04 pm
Those on the 4NCL mailing list will also have received election material from Mike Truran. Much of it is material sent to Council members which has probably already been published.

I will however quote the opening paragraph
As you may know, eight ECF Board and other positions (two of them contested) are up for election at the ECF’s AGM on 16 October. As 4NCL players you have as much a right as anybody to have your views heard at the AGM, and the way for you to do that is to make representations to your Direct Members’ Representatives, who wield significant numbers of votes in their own right at ECF meetings. See below on how to do this.
Six of the representatives have 6 votes each, whilst the other four have one each. So that's 40 in total compared with the 4NCL's 30. The ECF's membership rules on the other hand mean that very few 4NCL players will be Bronze or Silver, therefore have no particular influence on those representatives.

What it doesn't say is how the 4NCL's votes will be cast, although there may be no need to ask.
Has there been any consultation - either with team captains or players - about how the 4NCL might cast its *20* votes?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:27 pm

Angus French wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:04 pm
Those on the 4NCL mailing list will also have received election material from Mike Truran. Much of it is material sent to Council members which has probably already been published.

I will however quote the opening paragraph
As you may know, eight ECF Board and other positions (two of them contested) are up for election at the ECF’s AGM on 16 October. As 4NCL players you have as much a right as anybody to have your views heard at the AGM, and the way for you to do that is to make representations to your Direct Members’ Representatives, who wield significant numbers of votes in their own right at ECF meetings. See below on how to do this.
Six of the representatives have 6 votes each, whilst the other four have one each. So that's 40 in total compared with the 4NCL's 30. The ECF's membership rules on the other hand mean that very few 4NCL players will be Bronze or Silver, therefore have no particular influence on those representatives.

What it doesn't say is how the 4NCL's votes will be cast, although there may be no need to ask.
Has there been any consultation - either with team captains or players - about how the 4NCL might cast its *20* votes?
Yes, 4NCL captains received an e-mail on 29th September asking for comments on how the 4NCL should cast their votes along with their recommendation.

Angus French
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Angus French » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:50 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:27 pm
Angus French wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:52 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:04 pm
Those on the 4NCL mailing list will also have received election material from Mike Truran. Much of it is material sent to Council members which has probably already been published.

I will however quote the opening paragraph


Six of the representatives have 6 votes each, whilst the other four have one each. So that's 40 in total compared with the 4NCL's 30. The ECF's membership rules on the other hand mean that very few 4NCL players will be Bronze or Silver, therefore have no particular influence on those representatives.

What it doesn't say is how the 4NCL's votes will be cast, although there may be no need to ask.
Has there been any consultation - either with team captains or players - about how the 4NCL might cast its *20* votes?
Yes, 4NCL captains received an e-mail on 29th September asking for comments on how the 4NCL should cast their votes along with their recommendation.
Thanks Lawrence. Given previous postings I wasn't completely sure that would be the case but I'm pleased it is.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:58 pm

Angus French wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:28 pm
Thanks David, that's helpful. So there was definite merit in Kevin's recollection. But also I think it matters what friends of John Robinson believe he would have wished. Is that fair?
Yes it is fair, but I don't think that there is a consensus about that either. However, I regard that as a rather pointless discussion.

I make no apology for putting the record straight, but we are where we are. The John Robinson Trust is a reality and endless wrangling about whether John Robinson would or would not have wished it to be set up is not going to get us anywhere.

John hated confrontation. He would have been horrified by all the arguments which his legacy has caused.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Nick Ivell » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:45 am

No apology expected or needed, David. Merely a satirical observation that the passing of the years has not mellowed the tone of the debate.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:29 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:45 am
No apology expected or needed, David. Merely a satirical observation that the passing of the years has not mellowed the tone of the debate.
Nick, my comments were not made in response to your post, for the very bad reason that I had missed it until this morning.

I agree with you about the déjà vu.

John Reyes
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by John Reyes » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:53 pm

So far I have received 33 replies included myself

So hope for a few more this week and make sure your voice is heard
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well

Mick Norris
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:03 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:47 pm
If, as I understand, the £154K was left from John Robinson's Will, then it can't be used for purposes not specified by him

There's a fundamental lack of understanding here
Mick and others, please see the thread at viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8988.

On Page 7 Roger de Coverly quotes verbatim Richard Haddrell's report of the meeting which established the John Robinson Trust. On Page 9 I describe the terms of John Robinson's will, a copy of which I had obtained.
Thanks for the clarification David, very helpful, although I wish I'd not decided to not to read the whole thread
Any postings on here represent my personal views

John Reyes
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by John Reyes » Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:49 pm

So far just to let you know i have received 33 replies so far

With the chief executive roles before Malcolm pull out I received the following

Mike 16
Malcolm 12

For the chair of government committee
Robert stern 17
Chris Fegan 3

Other did not put anything down

For the other agenda point only 2 people have replied
And it was
Against on all off them
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well

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