Members' Representation

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
J T Melsom
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:06 pm

Sadly I am no expert on Ritson . Indeed my only occasion passing the Wasdale Head I didn't even have time for a pint :(

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:05 pm

Well, I don't know why the Silver reps needed to issue separate reports; their positions seem perfectly compatible. Tim makes a compelling case for why the ECF should exist, and John Reyes makes a compelling case for why Mike Truran should be in charge of it.

(For a document claiming to be about policies, I counted four appearances of "positive" in Tim's report and zero of "development officer" or "PIF". Obviously pitched at the low-information voters, to use Donald Trump's term.)
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John Reyes
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by John Reyes » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:55 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:45 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:28 pm
[
I am not sure that the accusations ( via Wall ) against Clissold, Regan and Woodhouse will bring Malcolm's campaign any net benefit, but perhaps his political instincts are better than mine.
Nick

Please do not put words into my mouth or misquote me.

I have made it very clear on this Forum and elsewhere that I do not level any criticism at Natasha Regan.

I do not expect to receive a fair hearing from John Reyes and a number of other people on this Forum who have made their positions very clear and it is impossible to debate with those of a closed mind, but I do expect better from you.

Chris
Hold on Chris, i one of the fairer people around, and i'm not closed mind but my personal option is my own, and you can see that in my silver member report, unlike other people
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well

Chris Fegan
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Fegan » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:03 pm

John Reyes wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:55 pm
Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:45 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:28 pm
[
I am not sure that the accusations ( via Wall ) against Clissold, Regan and Woodhouse will bring Malcolm's campaign any net benefit, but perhaps his political instincts are better than mine.
Nick

Please do not put words into my mouth or misquote me.

I have made it very clear on this Forum and elsewhere that I do not level any criticism at Natasha Regan.

I do not expect to receive a fair hearing from John Reyes and a number of other people on this Forum who have made their positions very clear and it is impossible to debate with those of a closed mind, but I do expect better from you.

Chris
Hold on Chris, i one of the fairer people around, and i'm not closed mind but my personal option is my own, and you can see that in my silver member report, unlike other people
John

Your Silver Report does not look very open minded nor fair to me.

Chris

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:18 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:03 pm
Your Silver Report does not look very open minded nor fair to me.
I suspect most of the audience thought it a statement of the facts. Where is it not fair or not open minded?

Until not so long ago, it was a generally agreed strategy that despite the problem that the ECF could not itself become a charity, there was however an option to put accumulated investments that had mostly arising from legacies into a charity influenced if not controlled by the ECF. This had the advantage that investment proceeds wouldn't be subject to UK tax with the disadvantage that the ECF's ability to spend the assets on a whim would be restricted.

Chris Fegan
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Fegan » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:25 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:18 pm
Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:03 pm
Your Silver Report does not look very open minded nor fair to me.
I suspect most of the audience thought it a statement of the facts. Where is it not fair or not open minded?

Until not so long ago, it was a generally agreed strategy that despite the problem that the ECF could not itself become a charity, there was however an option to put accumulated investments that had mostly arising from legacies into a charity influenced if not controlled by the ECF. This had the advantage that investment proceeds wouldn't be subject to UK tax with the disadvantage that the ECF's ability to spend the assets on a whim would be restricted.
It is a total diatribe attack on my candidacy using the kangaroo court as a justification

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:13 am

Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:25 pm
It is a total diatribe attack on my candidacy using the kangaroo court as a justification
Eh?! Are we reading the same report? You are mentioned in one sentence:

Reading the report of the NEDs and Governance Committee alongside Chris Fegan's election address, I get the impression that the NEDs have criticised Chris Fegan's behaviour, and he has responded by attacking all six of the NEDs and Governance Committee.

Did the NEDs, in August, not approach you about your behaviour, as they claim in their report? Specifically your breaches of confidentiality and of the Code of Conduct?

And did you not, in September, call the Governance Committee "chaotic", "failed" and "not up to the job" and demand a review into the role of the NEDs?

Where is the lie?
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Chris Fegan
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Fegan » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:35 am

Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:13 am
Chris Fegan wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:25 pm
It is a total diatribe attack on my candidacy using the kangaroo court as a justification
Eh?! Are we reading the same report? You are mentioned in one sentence:

Reading the report of the NEDs and Governance Committee alongside Chris Fegan's election address, I get the impression that the NEDs have criticised Chris Fegan's behaviour, and he has responded by attacking all six of the NEDs and Governance Committee.

Did the NEDs, in August, not approach you about your behaviour, as they claim in their report? Specifically your breaches of confidentiality and of the Code of Conduct?

And did you not, in September, call the Governance Committee "chaotic", "failed" and "not up to the job" and demand a review into the role of the NEDs?

Where is the lie?
Come to the AGM and all will be revealed

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:22 am

Chris Fegan wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:35 am
Come to the AGM and all will be revealed
Nah tho. You're asking people to decide before the AGM to vote for you, based on some smoking gun that you won't show us until the AGM. That doesn't sound like normal British standards of democracy.
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Chris Fegan
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Fegan » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:02 am

Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:22 am
Chris Fegan wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:35 am
Come to the AGM and all will be revealed
Nah tho. You're asking people to decide before the AGM to vote for you, based on some smoking gun that you won't show us until the AGM. That doesn't sound like normal British standards of democracy.
You really need to get your facts straight-nobody will vote until the AGM itself on 16th October.

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Chris Goodall
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Goodall » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:29 am

Chris Fegan wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:02 am
Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:22 am
Chris Fegan wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:35 am
Come to the AGM and all will be revealed
Nah tho. You're asking people to decide before the AGM to vote for you, based on some smoking gun that you won't show us until the AGM. That doesn't sound like normal British standards of democracy.
You really need to get your facts straight-nobody will vote until the AGM itself on 16th October.
Decide before the AGM. Not vote before the AGM. That's why I put the words "before the AGM" after "decide" and not after "vote".

If a county or league instructs its Council rep to vote for Robert, and then you give a brilliant speech at the AGM, the rep won't have time during the AGM to go back to the people they represent and ask whether they should change their vote.

Think of it as "it may harm your campaign if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on at the AGM".
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Michael Farthing
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:55 am

Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:29 am
Think of it as "it may harm your campaign if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on at the AGM".
:) :) :)

Angus French
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Angus French » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:02 am

Chris Goodall wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:29 am
If a county or league instructs its Council rep to vote for Robert, and then you give a brilliant speech at the AGM, the rep won't have time during the AGM to go back to the people they represent and ask whether they should change their vote.
Not good (self) governance - although it would be good if representatives were allowed some latitude to be influenced by what is said on the day.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:03 pm

Am I right in thinking that people can't just "come to the AGM". Unless they are a delegate I believe they can only attend at the invitation of the Chairman of Council (currently Michael Farthing) and even then can't do anything except watch.

Those of us with longer memories will remember that the last time we had a disputatious AGM the then Chairman of the Governance Committee made a hugely partisan intervention on the day which was much criticised and ultimately led to his resignation. One of the reasons he was so heavily criticised (leaving aside the neutrality his position required) is that by only making his views known to the closed shop of council he was preventing delegates from consulting with the players they represented.

It does seem odd that a faction that have always been vocally critical of the council system for denying the wider membership a say (and will likely repeat those criticisms if the AGM goes against them) are suddenly withholding information so it can only be for Council's ears. If there are revelations that are so damaging to those they concern, surely we can hear them now.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:16 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:03 pm
It does seem odd that a faction that have always been vocally critical of the council system for denying the wider membership a say (and will likely repeat those criticisms if the AGM goes against them) are suddenly withholding information so it can only be for Council's ears. If there are revelations that are so damaging to those they concern, surely we can hear them now.
There is form for that. A proposal for a system of OMOV was only going to be revealed to a Council meeting. Not even an outline, which might have enabled the disenfranchised to lean on Council voters to at least consider it. I believe the outcome was that the meeting declared itself out of time before the proposal was even heard.

I doubt the forthcoming meeting will wish to hear a lengthy diatribe about the faults of non executive directors and governance committee members either. Isn't normal practice to give those standing for election a strictly time limited slot to state their case?

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