Members' Representation

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:36 am

Keep 'em comin' Chris
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NickFaulks
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:23 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:31 pm
Roger Emerson is a well known Truran activist and propagandist and frankly a much discredited individual
Would it be simpler if Chris were to provide us with a list of people whom he does not consider to be despicable?
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Chris Fegan
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Chris Fegan » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:39 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:23 pm

Would it be simpler if Chris were to provide us with a list of people whom he does not consider to be despicable?
Nick

I consider most chess players NOT to be despicable actually Nick, including yourself, except when you beat me at Chess itself, like you did in our last OTB game.
I actually find very few people "despicable" generally ,(I have been involved in far too many elections to get that emotionally bothered) but what I do find slightly annoying and disingenuous is when people claim to be or try and pretend to be " independent" in an election period when they are clearly aligned to one side.

Chris

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:57 pm

Well, independence is not the same thing as neutrality; one can be unconnected to any of the campaigns in question without being undecided between them.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:02 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:57 pm
Well, independence is not the same thing as neutrality; one can be unconnected to any of the campaigns in question without being undecided between them.
The other question is whether one can be connected to a campaign and still undecided. That applies to five of the six Member Representatives with si votes apiece on the assumption that nominating someone connects them to the campaign.

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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:16 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:48 pm
Might the consultation messages from the members' reps be published here?
I have just received the message from the Platinum Members' representatives. As the other messages have been published in this thread, I publish this one also (without comment):

Dear Platinum Members

The ECF's AGM will be held on Saturday 16th October. As your representatives at the meeting we wish to canvas your opinions on the issues being presented so that we may best reflect your wishes at the meeting. This AGM has a few contentious issues -

1. Contested electon for the post of Chief Executive
2. Contested election for the post of Chair of the Governance Committee
3. Several motions for the transfer of the funds held with the Permanent Invested Fund and in Chess Centre Limited

There are a few other elections, but they are not being contested.

Chief Executive Election


The choice is between the current Chief Executive, Mike Truran, who has lead the ECF for a little over five years, and Malcolm Pein, the current International Director. We have attached both of their election addresses for you information and in addition two supporting documents provided by Mike Truran to Council Members. We have not seen any similar documents from Malcolm Pein, but we understand there are discussions on various fora that you may visit. {The documents mentioned have all been discussed on this Forum already - DRS.}

Chair of the Governance Committee


The choice is between Robert Stern, the current Chair of the Governance Committee, and Chris Fegan, the retiring Director of Women's Chess. We attach their election addresses for your information.

Transfer of the funds held within the Permanent Invested Fund (PIF) and Chess Centre Limited


At the October 2018 AGM Council agreed that the funds within the PIF would be transferred to the Chess Trust, a charity supporting chess in England, subject to agreement of the ECF Board. Part of the funds supporting the British Chess Championships (from the John Robinson bequest) were transferred and the Chess Trust is supporting the BCC as requested by John Robinson.

Malcolm Pein has now proposed that the remaining balance of funds should be transferred to the ECF and placed under the control of the ECF Board. This approach raises a few issues. The PIF and the Chess Centre Ltd were established for long term iniatitives. The first for long term support of the BCF/ECF in times of stress, and the second to support the establishment of a chess centre.

Firstly, if the funds are transferred to the ECF there will be a tax charge against any gains made within the PIF and Chess Centre Ltd. A transfer to the Chess Trust, a charity, should avoid these tax liabilities. Secondly, control of the funds will come under the ECF Board which may well use the funds to cover shortfalls in current expenditure rather than ensuring their use for longer development - it is a risk.

There are a number of other items on the agenda with supporting papers which may be found o the ECF's website under Council documents.

We would appreciate any thoughts that you may have on the above issues and any other matters relating to the agenda items. Replies by Wednesday 13th October, please.

Regards
Adrian Elwin and David Eustace

Simon Brown
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Simon Brown » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:38 pm

As I'm not currently an ECF member I have abstained from any comments. However I do know a fair bit about tax, and the implications of transferring funds out of a trust are complex, especially in this case, much more complex than simple tax on any gains. I hope someone has undertaken a thorough analysis, including the circumstances under which the cash went into the trust in the first place. The potential effective tax rate on this transfer could be significant.

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Re: Members' Representation

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:59 am

I have largely refrained from public comment about the ECF elections, but I now wish to highlight one point:

"Council requests the PCF Trustees to work with the Board to simplify the ECF/BCF structure and to ensure that the PIF Funds, while remaining under their stewardship, are transferred to the ECF ..." - Malcolm Pein and Robert Willmoth's resolution to Council.

"Malcolm Pein has now proposed that the remaining balance of funds should be transferred to the ECF and placed under the control of the ECF Board." - Message to ECF Platinum Members.

I suggested to the Platinum Members' representatives that their comment was inaccurate. One of them politely replied that he did not agree. He explained his reasons, but I felt that I should not give details of a private email.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:18 pm

@PeinECFcampaign on Twitter wrote:First Policy document: Development Officers https://developingenglishchess.com/deve ... -officers/ Time to give clubs leagues and congresses a helping hand. There is £154K of PIF funds in the Chess Trust, time to deploy a little. Detailed role and 1st year costings on the website @ecfchess
On precision, this isn't exactly how I understood it, so I'm going to have to read it all again :-(

Mick Norris
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:47 pm

If, as I understand, the £154K was left from John Robinson's Will, then it can't be used for purposes not specified by him

There's a fundamental lack of understanding here
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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Paul Robert Jackson
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Paul Robert Jackson » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:02 pm

Simon Brown wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:38 pm
As I'm not currently an ECF member I have abstained from any comments. However I do know a fair bit about tax, and the implications of transferring funds out of a trust are complex, especially in this case, much more complex than simple tax on any gains. I hope someone has undertaken a thorough analysis, including the circumstances under which the cash went into the trust in the first place. The potential effective tax rate on this transfer could be significant.
Simon, you a listed as a Silver Member until August 2022.
Paul Robert Jackson

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Paul Robert Jackson
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Paul Robert Jackson » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:05 pm

Paul Robert Jackson wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:02 pm
Simon Brown wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:38 pm
As I'm not currently an ECF member I have abstained from any comments. However I do know a fair bit about tax, and the implications of transferring funds out of a trust are complex, especially in this case, much more complex than simple tax on any gains. I hope someone has undertaken a thorough analysis, including the circumstances under which the cash went into the trust in the first place. The potential effective tax rate on this transfer could be significant.
Simon, you a listed as a Silver Member until August 2022.
Sorry wrong Simon.
Paul Robert Jackson

John Swain
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by John Swain » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:26 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:47 pm
If, as I understand, the £154K was left from John Robinson's Will, then it can't be used for purposes not specified by him

There's a fundamental lack of understanding here
The costs of funding the 2019 Development Officer were to come in part from the Chess Trust, according to the minutes of Board Meeting 128 (29 March 2019):

https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... ration.pdf

"9. Transfer of the PIF: Report (DE)
DE outlined progress on the transfer of funds from the PIF to the Chess Trust. JC confirmed
that he had written to the PIF trustees requesting an initial transfer of £70.5k over the next
three years. These funds would be made available to support International Chess, Women’s
Chess and a Development Officer role. It was envisaged that the balance of the PIF funds
would be transferred to the Chess Trust in due course once the success of the initial transfer
had been evaluated."

So, unless the views of the Trustees of the Chess Trust have changed in the past two years (they may have done - the composition of the Trustees has changed somewhat) the Chess Trust may be willing to provide financial support for Development Officers in 2021.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Nick Ivell » Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:31 pm

The intentions of legators cannot just be ignored.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Members' Representation

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:04 pm

"The intentions of legators cannot just be ignored."

They certainly shouldn't be, but I thought there was disagreement about the contents of JR's will?

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