Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
User avatar
Charlie Storey
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:49 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Charlie Storey » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:37 pm

Removal of any ECF officer that has been in position for 5 years and no sidestepping.

Would it be possible to have a rule which prevents any ECF officer from having more than 5 years of service in a given position.

It seems to me that entrepreneurs simply reinforce their position in the ECF as a means to propagate their own interests.

Not only is this abusive to all other chess entrepreneurs; it also forms malpractice where their decisions are to support their selfish interests rather than for the good of the Federation at critical decisions.

There are hundreds of excellent chess administrators in the UK and it would be wise to remove the current ones who simply swap their positions around to abuse the terms of service.

Can we get them out and let some new blood in and have a clear rule on a maximum 5-year tenure ship as it seems the entrepreneurs are improving but the ECF is not. it seems to me dark forces have taken over the ECF. Remove them.
FIDE Master/FIDE Trainer PGCE Won170+ Opens
Many National Junior Champions 1-1
ChessBase Author
ICC Presenter
England junior Team Coach 2008-19
Head of WCJS
Https://ChessSERVICESmap.com
https://chesscasestudy.gr8.com/
www.QueensGambitAcademy.com

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:29 pm

Charlie Storey wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:37 pm
Would it be possible to have a rule which prevents any ECF officer from having more than 5 years of service in a given position.
I think you will find that directors are elected for three years at a time. That's rather difficult to square with five year maximum terms. There was a proposal discussed only last April to have maximum six year terms. That was rejected. Some thought it shouldn't even have been discussed, being a distraction from the job of getting OTB chess restarted.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:33 pm

Accurate counting is not as I recall Charlie's hallmark
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Charlie Storey
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:49 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Charlie Storey » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 am

Justin are you referring to;

IM Norms I achieved in British Championships or how many Grandmasters I finished above in the last British Championship I played in.
My Over 160 Open victories in OTB Chess
OR MY 2500 - 2600 Lichess Rapid rating.
The amount of Official Chessbase products I have produced.
The number of ICC products I have produced.
The number of Juniors I coach 1-1 that have become National Champions in their age category.
The number of trips I have done as an official England Junior Team Coach
How many Cappucinos I have sold at my new Cafe Bar in Xaghra Gozo
How many times you make irrelevant comments to my posts - well yes - I have lost count on that one.
FIDE Master/FIDE Trainer PGCE Won170+ Opens
Many National Junior Champions 1-1
ChessBase Author
ICC Presenter
England junior Team Coach 2008-19
Head of WCJS
Https://ChessSERVICESmap.com
https://chesscasestudy.gr8.com/
www.QueensGambitAcademy.com

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 am

Charlie Storey wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 am
How many Cappucinos I have sold at my new Cafe Bar in Xaghra Gozo
You could add a large overestimation of the number to the menu :P

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Chris Goodall » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:54 am

Tim Wall on Twitter wrote: Hi Chris, if you’d like to talk timelines, how about Mike Truran proposing Dave Thomas to stand for a third term in office as Membership Director way back in August 2020, as a way of testing the waters for his own re-election campaign this year? Then Mike Truran was behind the moves for term limits to be relaxed at the April @ecfchess Council meeting to ease the way for his 3rd term in office this October. Just because the ECF is an arcane little organisation doesn’t mean people can’t work out what’s going on.
I guess the revolutionaries have decided that term limits will be today's talking point, but Charlie didn't quite read the briefing paper.
Donate to Sabrina's fundraiser at https://gofund.me/aeae42c7 to support victims of sexual abuse in the chess world.

Northumberland webmaster, Jesmond CC something-or-other. Views mine. Definitely below the Goodall Line.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:04 am

Chris Goodall wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:54 am
I guess the revolutionaries have decided that term limits will be today's talking point
Back in April, the ECF Council decided it didn't want its hands tied by term limits. If it didn't want a director in place longer than six years, a collective vote for "not this candidate" should do the business. That's provided the Board got the hint and didn't reappoint the same director to fill the vacancy.

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:28 am

I fear this forum is too full of trolls and negative thinkers to accommodate Charlie. It seems to me he should take the same approach as Tim and use the BCN facebook group instead.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Chris Goodall » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:15 pm

[/quote]
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:04 am
If it didn't want a director in place longer than six years, a collective vote for "not this candidate" should do the business.
Quite. In favour of term limits I find the Argument from Fresh Ideas wishy-washy. It depends on the people. Is there not an equal and opposite Argument from Continuity?

I have more sympathy for the Argument from Factionalism. Big bosses accrete factions around themselves over time. But that strikes me as an argument against the House of Pein more than against Mike.
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:28 am
I fear this forum is too full of trolls and negative thinkers to accommodate Charlie. It seems to me he should take the same approach as Tim and use the BCN facebook group instead.
There's no such thing as negative thinking, it's just positive thinking about the alternative 😛
Donate to Sabrina's fundraiser at https://gofund.me/aeae42c7 to support victims of sexual abuse in the chess world.

Northumberland webmaster, Jesmond CC something-or-other. Views mine. Definitely below the Goodall Line.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:49 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:28 am
I fear this forum is too full of trolls and negative thinkers to accommodate Charlie. It seems to me he should take the same approach as Tim and use the BCN facebook group instead.
Perhaps my memory is faulty but I thought Charlie had felt unwelcome on these pages and forsaken them, never to return. However, it's always a pleasure to witness his trenchant style and be reminded of his legendary status in the chess world.

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7162
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by John Upham » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:55 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:28 am
I fear this forum is too full of trolls and negative thinkers to accommodate Charlie. It seems to me he should take the same approach as Tim and use the BCN facebook group instead.
Charlie attempted to do just that and his comments were eventually deleted by one of the moderators (myself).
Last edited by John Upham on Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

User avatar
Charlie Storey
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:49 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Charlie Storey » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:21 am

Hi John

I noticed you deleted my comment from your bias news site. Can you explain why other than you are pals with the entrepreneurs that are in positions that have seen their own organizations flourish?

It seemed very immature of you to delete a very valid point that there should be only 5 years of service to prevent entrepreneurs from using their positions in the ECF to propagate their own organizations rather than focusing their energies on improving the ECF. In fact most of the entrepreneurs with their activities should have the ECF running them, but of course, a decent National chess League and ECF Schools program will never happen and the money the ECF should be generating from these events is going directly into the entrepreneur's pockets as clearly there is a huge conflict of interest from their positions.

So tell me John with the current excessive service of these directors where is the excellent ECF National Chess League and even more embarrassingly where is the excellent ECF Chess in schools projects.

It does not take a genius to see this is completely wrong and restrictive to ECF development with an enormous conflict of interest.

it seems to me John that you abuse your position in your own news site and I will not be visiting such a bias site agan until you learn how to take comments without brown-nosing bias.

I left your group for this reason and will seek my Chess news from Chess.com instead.
FIDE Master/FIDE Trainer PGCE Won170+ Opens
Many National Junior Champions 1-1
ChessBase Author
ICC Presenter
England junior Team Coach 2008-19
Head of WCJS
Https://ChessSERVICESmap.com
https://chesscasestudy.gr8.com/
www.QueensGambitAcademy.com

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:25 pm

Charlie Storey wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:21 am
a decent National chess League and ECF Schools program will never happen and the money the ECF should be generating from these events is going directly into the entrepreneur's pockets as clearly there is a huge conflict of interest from their positions.
Charlie. You're entitled to your views, of course, but I'd be interested to hear why you believe (a) "a decent National chess League ..... will never happen" when the 4NCL is arguably the second-strongest in Western Europe and (b) money from the 4NCL is being syphoned off when, in terms of entry fees, the 4NCL compares rather favourably with other UK opportunities to play FIDE-rated classical chess. That's not to dispute that some people have multiple roles within the chess world, as indeed you do yourself, but multiple roles doesn't automatically lead to conflicts of interest.

Simon Rogers
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Simon Rogers » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:13 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:25 pm
Charlie Storey wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:21 am
a decent National chess League and ECF Schools program will never happen and the money the ECF should be generating from these events is going directly into the entrepreneur's pockets as clearly there is a huge conflict of interest from their positions.
Charlie. You're entitled to your views, of course, but I'd be interested to hear why you believe (a) "a decent National chess League ..... will never happen" when the 4NCL is arguably the second-strongest in Western Europe and (b) money from the 4NCL is being syphoned off when, in terms of entry fees, the 4NCL compares rather favourably with other UK opportunities to play FIDE-rated classical chess. That's not to dispute that some people have multiple roles within the chess world, as indeed you do yourself, but multiple roles doesn't automatically lead to conflicts of interest.
With 4NCL being the second-strongest in Western Europe, I'm guessing Malta and Gozo is the strongest.

Simon Rogers
Posts: 2337
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:30 pm

Re: Maximum 5 years of ECF Service to prevent abuse.

Post by Simon Rogers » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:14 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:25 pm
Charlie Storey wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:21 am
a decent National chess League and ECF Schools program will never happen and the money the ECF should be generating from these events is going directly into the entrepreneur's pockets as clearly there is a huge conflict of interest from their positions.
Charlie. You're entitled to your views, of course, but I'd be interested to hear why you believe (a) "a decent National chess League ..... will never happen" when the 4NCL is arguably the second-strongest in Western Europe and (b) money from the 4NCL is being syphoned off when, in terms of entry fees, the 4NCL compares rather favourably with other UK opportunities to play FIDE-rated classical chess. That's not to dispute that some people have multiple roles within the chess world, as indeed you do yourself, but multiple roles doesn't automatically lead to conflicts of interest.
With 4NCL being the second-strongest in Western Europe, I'm guessing Malta and Gozo is the strongest.

Post Reply