English Chess Forum

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm

I can't see why a league would have a problem with a team playing all their matches away - it doesn't inconvenience the opposition in the slightest, and with the prohibitive costs of rising rent I wouldn't be surprised if in future more clubs end up having to do this.

Er, if rising rent is a problem, and a chess club is charged on a per-night basis, then the home chess club is effectively paying twice as much as it would otherwise have to do, unless you presume that chess clubs budget for opening the club every week during the season, and are able to accommodate normal (social) club nights as well as double the normal amount of competition nights (i.e. league matches).

Now if the venue was big enough for social chess (or club championships matches or other club events) in one room, and league matches in another room, and the visiting team were prepared to pay half of the cost of hiring the room, that would work. But if not, then this is not workable. You can understand why some leagues have a central venue where the members club together to pay the hire costs. The London League does (did?) this.

It can inconvenience the opposition, as it happens - I remember the Bristol League one year having to be very careful with Clevedon's scheduling, because they had three teams but their venue was only big enough to host one match at a time, so they could only just fit in to the 27 allocated weeks.

It can also help the home club. I remember one fairly small club pointing out that with an increased number of away fixtures on the same night as their club night, they didn't have anybody to open the club or people to play.

We have had clubs without venues in the Bucks league - we also have players in established clubs that used to play for nomadic teams. I suspect that in most instances it would be better for people to join the nearest established club and then see whether there is demand and/or assistance for a new club. Critical mass is important.

I would have thought most team members would rather play at home than away, and if the other clubs can accommodate an extra home game all should be fine, particularly if the new team offers to contribute something for the room rental. It's when a second team asks to play all its matches away you run into a problem. Even then, if there's another club prepared to host a couple of matches a season for a suitable contribution, it's doable.

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm

I can't see why a league would have a problem with a team playing all their matches away - it doesn't inconvenience the opposition in the slightest, and with the prohibitive costs of rising rent I wouldn't be surprised if in future more clubs end up having to do this.

My club is currently without a venue. I asked all our members if they wanted to play in the local leagues if we played all our matches away. There was zero interest.

IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:59 pm

It can inconvenience the opposition, as it happens - I remember the Bristol League one year having to be very careful with Clevedon's scheduling, because they had three teams but their venue was only big enough to host one match at a time, so they could only just fit in to the 27 allocated weeks.

Actually quite a common issue, I'd imagine if not quite to that extent!

York RI could only really sensibly do 2 teams out of 4 at home at any point in the Yorkshire league and Chorlton say run loads of teams in the Manchester leagues etc.

There are tricks if you know the Berger tables. If you have N teams and N is even, the venueless team is the obvious choice to be position N in the draw. That gives everyone else an equal number of home and away matches plus one match at home against the venueless team, and gives no-one three consecutive home matches.

But if you have an odd number of teams, then position N will be the bye. So another way to handle it is to call up the club that has lots of kids, and ask if they'll enter a junior team that plays all its matches at home. Then I believe there's a way to place the home-only team and the away-only team in the draw such that if you combine the two teams' fixtures into one list and have the home-only team play all the home fixtures and vice versa, they will get the right opponents.

It doesn’t really make sense for clubs premises to be unable to accommodate all of their members. If a club has more members (teams) than it can accommodate then it really needs bigger premises, and those additional members ought to mean additional income to finance bigger premises. I know that is an accountants’/economists’ view, and reality will get in the way, but long term those clubs are not really viable.

Graham Borrowdale wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:59 pm

It doesn’t really make sense for clubs premises to be unable to accommodate all of their members. If a club has more members (teams) than it can accommodate then it really needs bigger premises, and those additional members ought to mean additional income to finance bigger premises. I know that is an accountants’/economists’ view, and reality will get in the way, but long term those clubs are not really viable.

I dunno, there's often far more people attached to a clubs league teams than will ever dream of turning up to a 'random' club night.

I think the solution is for all the Clubs to rent a venue for the season and share the costs! It is more cost effective that having problems of renting and accommodating everyone!

That works well for city leagues such as the London League. It's not so great for leagues spread out over a large county.

After about 25 emails and 6 weeks no one in the Bristol League is still able to answer (or even give me an indication that they have discussed) the question.

Arnav Sud wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:59 pm

After about 25 emails and 6 weeks no one in the Bristol League is still able to answer (or even give me an indication that they have discussed) the question.

Who have you contacted on this matter?

Hi John - I have just messaged you all the email IDs I have contacted! For some reason the sent message is sitting in the Outbox admiring the scenery ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Bristol League have "discussed" the matter and have denied my request. Let's keep up the tradition of playing Chess like in antediluvian times and close our hearts and minds to new ideas!

Well done!