World Youth Trials 2010

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:31 am

Leonard Barden wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:Callum Kilpatrick chose not to compete at the trial. I imagine that he felt his schoolwork was more important. I respect him for that decision, but if he is unable to play a weekend, is he really going to be able to play a two week long event?
I do not know what happened with Peter William's invite, but somebody needs to take it up with the Junior Director. To be honest, information about the junior selection process has been on the ECF for a long time, so it is perhaps a little bit silly to wait until after the trial to raise the subject of Peter's 'non-invite'.
I don't know Kilpatrick's situation, but it seems to be quite possible that he is working on exams now but will be in his gap year and using it partly to improve his chess by the time of the tournament. That happens with quite a few leading English juniors.
Well, a gap year is certainly not compulsory, there's every possibility he could just head straight into University. You probably know this, but your post gave the impression that you thought he'd be sure to take a gap year.

That said, the tournament will be held such that he misses about 2 weeks of University work. If he's playing for England, the University will not mind too much. The first year of University tends to be pretty labour-unintensive (particularly given it'll be within 4 weeks of the start of the year - there isn't too much they can have tought for a student to be assessed on in that time!). So it would be possible for him to play, having had a 12-week break (or so) in the summer to "prepare".

I would be interested to see/know if the missing people would have played if it had been held at a weekend over the Easter holidays. Part of the problem with organisation of junior events is that they're held at non-ideal (and sometimes, plain daft) times. E.g. the Megafinals are largely in May, often days before GCSE Maths, or something. While numbers over the age of 12 are limited anyway due to very few secondary schools running the UKCC, the timing of these things could be much better. (I e-mailed Mike Basman about this while I was still playing it, and was told words to the effect of "chess is more important to a rounded education". I don't think he quite understood the point.)

Mick Norris
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:19 pm

There are a lot of chess events over the Easter weekend (Bolton, Southend) which might be a reason to avoid then, as well as families going away over the Easter holidays
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:38 pm

Mick Norris wrote:There are a lot of chess events over the Easter weekend (Bolton, Southend) which might be a reason to avoid then, as well as families going away over the Easter holidays
Indeed. I wouldn't be too concerned with the other events, a junior would put the England trial ahead of Bolton/Southend. Families going away is the true problem. However, if the date is known a year in advance, it gives families the opportunity to plan for it.

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David Shepherd
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by David Shepherd » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:57 pm

Another consideration is that a number of the schools also have trips overseas in the Easter holidays.

Simon Spivack
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Simon Spivack » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:12 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Callum Kilpatrick chose not to compete at the trial. I imagine that he felt his schoolwork was more important. I respect him for that decision, but if he is unable to play a weekend, is he really going to be able to play a two week long event?
Callum was able to play in a two week contest two years ago. The family sought and obtained the approval of his headmaster, they were very helpful in other ways too. I hope that the ECF organisers are not swayed just by participation in a qualifier.

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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:35 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:Callum Kilpatrick chose not to compete at the trial. I imagine that he felt his schoolwork was more important. I respect him for that decision, but if he is unable to play a weekend, is he really going to be able to play a two week long event?
Callum was able to play in a two week contest two years ago. The family sought and obtained the approval of his headmaster, they were very helpful in other ways too. I hope that the ECF organisers are not swayed just by participation in a qualifier.
Well, they will be for this, since it was the basis of their qualification.

Also, he won't be at school in October, he'll be at University. He doesn't need permission from his school, he doesn't even need to attend the lectures. The only problem would be if he had tests or coursework.

Carol Williams
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Carol Williams » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:33 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Ian Kingston wrote:
Carol Williams wrote:Peter Williams is the 2nd Under 14 player in the country, FIDE Grade 2102 and he wasn't invited.
Perhaps some people don't fulfil the "Invitation" criteria - if only they knew what it was
The Junior Selection Policy may be found at http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=353.
Basically, Peter Williams seems to have been disadvantaged because he chose to score a brilliant result in the Hastings Masters rather than compete in the simultaneously played much weaker London junior which is one of the officially favoured events. Of course Hastings is far more relevant to the very strong opposition our players will face in the World Youth.

As regards the U18s, Callum Kilpatrick appears to be still eligible and is far higher graded than the players in the qualifying tournament.

While selection continues as a flawed process, our results will continue to suffer accordingly.
Leonard - I believe you are correct on all counts

Matthew - re the dog suggestion - we don't have one and our South African tortoises can't reach the letter box :lol:

Matthew Turner
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:47 pm

Carol,
Leonard is clearly not correct on all counts

"Basically, Peter Williams seems to have been disadvantaged because he chose to score a brilliant result in the Hastings Masters rather than compete in the simultaneously played much weaker London junior which is one of the officially favoured events"

there were numerous players at the trial who had missed Grand Prix events, some like Peter to play at Hastings. I really hope that you will take up the issue of Peter's invite with Peter Purland and let us know the outcome.

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Rob Thompson
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Rob Thompson » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:22 pm

Ok, time to change a few misconceptions everyone seems to have. The criteria for being invited to events such as this have been publicised. This mainly involves around playing in junior events, against other juniors, such as they will be in the international tournaments that they will be playing in. Afaik, Peter Williams played in none of these. Case closed.
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Ben Purton
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Ben Purton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:25 pm

This is a joke selection process.......... You just pick the top rating or top imrpover.

One tournament shouldnt be the end of.
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Rob Thompson
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Rob Thompson » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:29 pm

It isn't. There is also the Grand Prix for those who perform badly in the selection tournament but show over a series of others that they are good enough. Afaik, Peter Williams didn't attend any of these. He could have still played enough with spare and played Hastings btw, they are not mutually exclusive
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Ben Purton
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Ben Purton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:31 pm

Like Jamie adair is one of the top 3 for his age, no doubts there........ surely consistantly in top events , instead of mickey mouse bullcrap events is the way forward. Im never with Leonard on much but Hastings is a hard event to do well in , let alone make norm sheets.
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

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Rob Thompson
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Rob Thompson » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:33 pm

He's known as Jamie now is he? When did this change? and i'm afraid I don't see your point, it's possible to play Hastings and qualify.... Do you even know if James got an invite, or are you just guessing from the fact that he didn't get a prize?
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Ben Purton
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Ben Purton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:34 pm

I know he played m8, he told me he was going to play as I captain in him in 4ncl. So im assuming he didnt place or didnt go at late notice.
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

Matthew Turner
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Re: World Youth Trials 2010

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:34 pm

Robert,
If you read the selection policy, there is no mention of any requirement to play in junior events to be invited to the World trial. Yes there is a series of junior events for the John Robinson Grand Prix (for selection to the European Youth). Peter Williams didn't play in any of these events, but neither did Rhys Cumming and he got invited to, and played in, the trial.

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