English Chess Forum

I thought that I would share some random thoughts... please do feel free to ignore / agree / disagree!

I looked recently at buying an ECF membership:
For a cost of £52 I could get:
ChessMoves – the ECF bi-monthly news letter Chess moves doesn't excite me hugely
Reduced entry fees to most congresses I have never yet played in a congress
ECF Yearbook free on request not yet sure I would want the yearbook
Special prices from the ECF Catalogue don't need any chess kit (books are cheaper on ebay / I have far too many chess sets already!)
Discounts from chess retailers ditto
Early notification of your grade, via a computer printout of your grading details don't have a grade, so early notification is not that useful
15-month diary including events calendar and reduced price on other publications surely the internet is the future for this - don't need any more paper!
A reduced fee to become an ECF Master mmm - that is a long way off

I could of course spend £100 and get nothing more except the name of vice-president

I was quite keen to support ECF, but I can really see nothing I would value that I would get for my money...

so I looked further afield...
I looked at online chess sites - what value might I get for my money?
I tried www.chesscube.com which is very swish and impressive... but... having won a game on there it crashed and I didn't get the points - most disappointing! in fact, it is too bloated running over flash - and not ideal for iphone either...
I looked at FICS - free, but very sparse

I ended up at www.chess.com and I was impressed - I am still finding extra features on the site but am very impressed with what I have seen so far...

videos / forums / teaching / tactics / chess mentor / playing / groups / tournaments / iphone app / etc. etc.

you can do a lot free, or you can subscribe at different levels... I have bought the trial with full intention of continuing with the diamond membership - total access to the site - for c. £70 a year

now I know that this is not a direct comparison to the ECF membership - they are very different things... but...
as someone who has played chess all their life but has decided to spend some time improving I am looking for ways of improving. I would guess that those who are keen on chess (most likely to join ECF) are also most likely to be interested in improving / learning / etc.

so where are these random thoughts taking me? I was wondering whether there is any value in combining these ideas... would it work for ECF to join the two together and link up with a site like chess.com? offer a combined membership - I imagine that ECF putting its name behind a site like that would allow them to negotiate a discount which when combined with what ECF offers would provide an impressive package

for example - had there been a combined package of full chess.com and ECF for £99 I might have been tempted...

you might ask why ECF would potentially reduce what they get as income from a member - well, i think that they could cut back on some of the things they offer (discounts at traders will be there anyway - don't offer the printed materials which cost money etc.) add something like chess.com membership and the value would be so good that I am sure that there would be others like me would would snap it up - without there is no income from me...

anyway random mutterings over for now

Alasdair


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Alasdair,

Comparing membership of a National Federation to an online server doesn't seem to make too much sense to me. You're comparing apples with oranges.

In any case, ECF Standard Membership is £20 which is much cheaper than Full membership. Although if you don't have a grade and don't play congresses, any ECF membership category is probably going to seem expensive.

Alisdair

One thing that comes across very clearly from your letter is that you are absolutely NOT keen to support the ECF

Andrew

It would be interesting to see how many people would be ECF members if they didn't have to be a member of the ECF to play in FIDE rated tournaments.

My thought on the list of perks:
ChessMoves – the ECF bi-monthly news letter - all on the ECF website
Reduced entry fees to most congresses - spend more time controlling sections of them of late
ECF Yearbook free on request - would actually be interested in this, but it's cheaper to just buy it.
Special prices from the ECF Catalogue - maybe
Discounts from chess retailers - maybe
Early notification of your grade, via a computer printout of your grading details - I can wait, and I keep track of it myself. If it's in the same ballpark, then I don't really mind.
15-month diary including events calendar - A more up-to-date version is on the ECF website, what's the point?
Reduced price on other publications - such as?
A reduced fee to become an ECF Master - not good enough
Can play in FIDE rated events like the 4NCL - not good enough to play in the 4NCL, and a FIDE rating of 1700 or so is meaningless in the sort of chess I play, e.g. league, University.

I'm not sure that I could be considered to be unsupportive of the ECF though (or at least, English chess), despite my lack of membership.

Do you have to be a member of the ECF to qualify as an arbiter?

Alex Holowczak wrote: Do you have to be a member of the ECF to qualify as an arbiter?

Yes.

Sean Hewitt wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote: Do you have to be a member of the ECF to qualify as an arbiter?

Yes.

That seems to be a bit of a raw deal.

"Thanks for running numerous congresses per year, for no financial gain, without which no weekend tournaments in the area would be played, and we'd miss out on £100s Game Fee. Oh, but remember to pay your £20 ECF membership next year."

Alex Holowczak wrote:

Sean Hewitt wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote: Do you have to be a member of the ECF to qualify as an arbiter?

Yes.

That seems to be a bit of a raw deal.

"Thanks for running numerous congresses per year, for no financial gain, without which no weekend tournaments in the area would be played, and we'd miss out on £100s Game Fee. Oh, but remember to pay your £20 ECF membership next year."

I have to pay a registration fee to the FA every year to be a football referee. It's the same thing really.

Sean Hewitt wrote: I have to pay a registration fee to the FA every year to be a football referee. It's the same thing really.

Yeah, that seems a bit silly too.

Oh well, I'm sure whoever thought it up thought it was a good idea.

(A cunning arbiter could probably negotiate the payment of a percentage of his/her membership as a condition of him doing any arbiting work.)

Alex Holowczak wrote: (A cunning arbiter could probably negotiate the payment of a percentage of his/her membership as a condition of him doing any arbiting work.)

In all fairness, most arbiters do get paid for the events they officiate at. Not a fortune admittedly, but they do get something. It's also worth remembering that the ECF will pay the costs of your CRB check which you have to have.

this is slightly off topic - maybe - but regarding the CRB check point - is that also true if you are arbiting at a senior event (like the one at Exmouth, for example), as clearly children are not an issue there.

Rob Thompson wrote:this is slightly off topic - maybe - but regarding the CRB check point - is that also true if you are arbiting at a senior event (like the one at Exmouth, for example), as clearly children are not an issue there.

Rob - Yes. If you want to be an arbiter in England then you have to be CRB checked.

CRB checks are used by many organisations to vet people who come into contact with not just children, but vulnerable adults too.

Alisdair,
You have said that you don't play congresses and you haven't got a grade. It would seem then that you don't play a lot of chess. In these circumstances, I don't really see why you would expect to get a lot of benefit from membership of the national federation.
What I think you have highlighted is a (long-term) flaw in the ECF marketting. The ECF have always said join the ECF - you'll get more back than you put in. This is ridiculous. The ECF should need membership funds to support England teams at the Olympiad, send our leading juniors to World and European Championships and develop junior coaching and support programmes. Most ECF members are not going to feel any personal benefit from these things, but they develop the game at the national level.

Matthew Turner wrote:Alisdair,
You have said that you don't play congresses and you haven't got a grade. It would seem then that you don't play a lot of chess. In these circumstances, I don't really see why you would expect to get a lot of benefit from membership of the national federation.
What I think you have highlighted is a (long-term) flaw in the ECF marketting. The ECF have always said join the ECF - you'll get more back than you put in. This is ridiculous. The ECF should need membership funds to support England teams at the Olympiad, send our leading juniors to World and European Championships and develop junior coaching and support programmes. Most ECF members are not going to feel any personal benefit from these things, but they develop the game at the national level.

Matthew,

In an ideal world you are absolutely correct. However, in the current reality the situation is that ECF needs membership to pay for the office.

Just a quick note on CRB checks. As a former (unpaid) manager of coaching for the ECF I was asked to have a CRB check - perfectly appropriate. However, I was somewhat surprised that the ECF wanted me to pay for the privilege. I am now a registered coach with ChessScotland, because it was a requirement to coach Scotland at the Glorney Cup. The CRB process was a bit of a pain - digging out my birth certificate took a while! However, the ChessScotland officials were very efficient (and rigorous) and, as a member of ChessScotland it was free.

Sean Hewitt wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote: (A cunning arbiter could probably negotiate the payment of a percentage of his/her membership as a condition of him doing any arbiting work.)

In all fairness, most arbiters do get paid for the events they officiate at. Not a fortune admittedly, but they do get something. It's also worth remembering that the ECF will pay the costs of your CRB check which you have to have.

I didn't know you had to have a CRB check, but it makes sense. Although, in most lines of work, the company you work for will pay the cost of the CRB for you.