New ECF Master Points System Title

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Paul McKeown
Posts: 3324
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:56 pm

Adam,

You don't seem to have provided any response to the question of whether it this is a fair method for dealing with existing holders of the British (national) Master title?

Regards,
Paul.

Sean Hewitt

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:22 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:Your points; no, the discount would not be claimed back from the ECF. It's up to organisers what discount they give and to whom, but I would hope any organiser will commit to giving benefits for a year of the scheme and for all categories of titleholder; the benefits are already ongoing and has to be a discount on future entries as I don't think time travel has been invented yet.
Hi Adam,

As an organiser, can I ask why would I want to give a discount to these title holders? Or, to put it more accurately, ask non-title holders to cross subsidise the title holders?

I can see no benefit at the moment for an event or organiser in this idea. If I believed that offering a price reduction to any particular group of players would encourage sufficient additional entries to pay for the discount then I would offer the discount.

It seems to me that the ECF wants organisers to pay for their title products. To that idea this organiser says thanks, but no thanks!!

User avatar
Adam Raoof
Posts: 2377
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: NW4 4UY
Contact:

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:14 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:I can see no benefit at the moment for an event or organiser in this idea. If I believed that offering a price reduction to any particular group of players would encourage sufficient additional entries to pay for the discount then I would offer the discount.
I'm not sure what that sentence actually means ;-)

To me the attraction is simple. I have a venue that will hold 100 people, and I get about 80 regular entries. That means I am wasting the opportunity to get 20 more players into the tournament. Any idea that might attract one or two extra players is good.

The downside might be if the same people that come every month rush out and get titles, and claim a discount when they enter the tournament. In your case, Sean, you don't appear to need any more players!

User avatar
Adam Raoof
Posts: 2377
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: NW4 4UY
Contact:

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:25 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:British Federations (England, Scotland, Wales) formerly had a process for awarding the British Master title, which was mutually recognised. Titles formerly awarded have not been revoked and there are still a number of living holders of this title.
Is there a list of these titleholders somewhere? Does this title still exist, and if so, what are the criteria for an award?

At the least we can add those titleholders to a field on the grading database so that all owners of BCF / ECF titles are credited.

E Michael White
Posts: 1345
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by E Michael White » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:16 pm

If anyone is interested, the British Master title BM was dumbed down in 1972 to be awarded to any British nationals, who were established at over 216 on any one of various criteria. The reason for 216 was that it was mid way between the entry level to FIDE ratings, then 2250 and IM level of 2400. Ian Thompson may be right that it was further dumbed down later to 213.

In 1972 there were 24 BM title holders. Some of these players became BMs as a result of becoming an IM first, which made a BM title an automatic award.

User avatar
Adam Raoof
Posts: 2377
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: NW4 4UY
Contact:

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:23 pm

E Michael White wrote:If anyone is interested, the British Master title BM was dumbed down in 1972 to be awarded to any British nationals, who were established at over 216 on any one of various criteria. The reason for 216 was that it was mid way between the entry level to FIDE ratings, then 2250 and IM level of 2400. Ian Thompson may be right that it was further dumbed down later to 213.

In 1972 there were 24 BM title holders. Some of these players became BMs as a result of becoming an IM first, which made a BM title an automatic award.
Michael, Can you give us a list of the titleholders as of 1972?

E Michael White
Posts: 1345
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by E Michael White » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:15 am

In 1972

BMs - Aitken, Barden, Basman, Berger, Botterill, Broadbent, Clarke, Franklin, J Fuller, Hartston, A Hollis, Horne, P Lee, J Littlewood, Milner-Barry, Whiteley.

IMs - who were also awarded the BM title :- Alexander, Fairhurst, Golombek, Keene, Kottnauer, Levi, J Penrose, Wade.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 2982
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:30 pm

E Michael White wrote:Berger
Heard of all the others on there, but who he?

(maybe the one who beat Alekhine pre-WW2?? He must have been getting on by then, if so)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Mike Truran
Posts: 2392
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:50 pm

Yes, I believe it is the same person. NB Levy not Levi.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 2982
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: New ECF Master Points System Title

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:05 pm

Some fairly decent post war players not on that list (Abrahams and Barry Wood, to name just two)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Post Reply