County Championship Quarter Finals

[Alex Holowczak]

I shall be making the journey from Manchester, via Cheshire, Staffordshire and Warwickshire to Worcestershire to play for Leicestershire against Gloucestershire

Better?

You went through Warwickshire? Where was the game, Moseley?

[Ian Thompson]

Presumably Middlesex v Hampshire in the Minor Counties.

That's a particularly disappointing match default. Compared to some of the matches, that's practically next door...

I don't know why so few Hampshire players were available, and I'd be disappointed if it was due to unwillingness to travel.

Having said that, the travel time is probably more than you'd think. For me, living in North-East Hampshire, almost as close to central London as its possible to be whilst still in Hampshire, it would have taken 2 hours each way, plus however long I needed to allow because trains won't run at the exact times I'd like them to, plus however long I choose to allow in case they are late. For someone living in Southampton, add on 20 minutes each way. For someone living in Portsmouth, add on 40 minutes each way.

[Tim Spanton]

Presumably Middlesex v Hampshire in the Minor Counties.

That's a particularly disappointing match default. Compared to some of the matches, that's practically next door...

I don't know why so few Hampshire players were available, and I'd be disappointed if it was due to unwillingness to travel.

Having said that, the travel time is probably more than you'd think. For me, living in North-East Hampshire, almost as close to central London as its possible to be whilst still in Hampshire, it would have taken 2 hours each way, plus however long I needed to allow because trains won't run at the exact times I'd like them to, plus however long I choose to allow in case they are late. For someone living in Southampton, add on 20 minutes each way. For someone living in Portsmouth, add on 40 minutes each way.

Why London? Surely it would have been at a halfway venue?

[Ian Thompson]

Why London? Surely it would have been at a halfway venue?

The venue would have been:

Middlesex Street Community Hall
Petticoat Square
off Middlesex Street
E1 7EA

I don't know if Hampshire had the option of a half-way venue or not.

[Tim Spanton]

Why London? Surely it would have been at a halfway venue?

The venue would have been:

Middlesex Street Community Hall
Petticoat Square
off Middlesex Street
E1 7EA

I don't know if Hampshire had the option of a half-way venue or not.

They certainly did if the normal rules were being followed, viz:
The county drawn away can insist on an intermediate venue, provided it is prepared to make all the arrangements and that all expenses are shared by the teams concerned.

[IM Jack Rudd]

I don't know if Hampshire had the option of a half-way venue or not.

Rule E12 in all its glory (bolding mine):

E12. Except in the Final of each Championship, when a central venue will be nominated by the Director of Home Chess and agreed upon by the Board, matches shall be arranged by the Counties concerned. The county drawn away can insist on an intermediate venue, provided it is prepared to make all the arrangements and that all expenses are shared by the teams concerned. It is the responsibility of the county drawn at home to provide refreshments for the away county. Where a match is played at an intermediate venue, refreshments should be provided for both teams, expenses to be shared. Where counties fail to agree on a venue, rule C2 shall apply. Matches may be played by telephone, if mutually agreed between the Counties and if the Controller is so informed beforehand.

So Hampshire could have insisted on an intermediate venue, but in that case they, rather than Middlesex, would have had to sort it out.

[Alex Holowczak]

Matches may be played by telephone, if mutually agreed between the Counties and if the Controller is so informed beforehand.

How do you play a match by telephone?

[David Pardoe]

Lets hear the reasons for any defaults before raising criticism. I`ve known of cases where bad communications have led to things decending into chaos. Maybe due to a captain being ill, or indesposed. Thats why I think two contacts per team would be beneficial. I`m also aware that some captains can be less than helpful when it comes to arranging matches.
And some players can be very poor at letting captains know what they are doing, at times.

[Roger de Coverly]

How do you play a match by telephone?

You assemble the teams at two separate venues. At each venue, you need an independent arbiter plus a telephonist and move runners.

You set up the match in the normal way. Players make their moves and press their clocks. The move played is noted by one of the runners who takes it to the telephonist who phones it through to the telephonist at the other venue. This move is then communicated to the runners at the other venue who go to the relevant board, play the move and press the clock.

That's the classic description which is a rule set which pre-dates mobile phones by many years. Needless to say you needed nearly twice the normal playing time.

Use of mobile phones opens up many more possibilities - you could use text or even a server if you have internet access.

Does anyone play telephone matches any more? They aren't really compatible with quick play finishes.

[Ian Kingston]

Matches could be played over the Internet given suitable facilities. The practical details would need to be worked out (and they might be tricky, especially for those pioneering the process), but there's no technical reason why it can't be done.

[Alex Holowczak]

How do you play a match by telephone?

You assemble the teams at two separate venues. At each venue, you need an independent arbiter plus a telephonist and move runners.

You set up the match in the normal way. Players make their moves and press their clocks. The move played is noted by one of the runners who takes it to the telephonist who phones it through to the telephonist at the other venue. This move is then communicated to the runners at the other venue who go to the relevant board, play the move and press the clock.

That's the classic description which is a rule set which pre-dates mobile phones by many years. Needless to say you needed nearly twice the normal playing time.

Use of mobile phones opens up many more possibilities - you could use text or even a server if you have internet access.

Does anyone play telephone matches any more? They aren't really compatible with quick play finishes.

Thanks. Does anyone know the last time a telephone match was played in the County Championship, or remember playing in one?

[Roger de Coverly]

Thanks. Does anyone know the last time a telephone match was played in the County Championship, or remember playing in one?

This is second-hand as I wasn't playing.

There was a match Berks v Cumbria around 25 years ago, I think, which ended rather farcically with games being abandoned as unfinished. By this stage Berks had a winning margin. Presumably it was getting late.

[Richard Haddrell]

I normally rely on the SCCU website for county match information, but on this occasion Richard Haddrell has been well and truly scooped.

Well and truly. But, having (sort of) caught up, I do have some QF results that haven’t appeared on the Forum yet. See http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/new.htm. There are still some missing. Can anyone oblige?

[David Sedgwick]

Thanks. Does anyone know the last time a telephone match was played in the County Championship, or remember playing in one?

I played in such a match in 1985, for Surrey against Cornwall in the National Stages of the Minor Counties Championship. Board 1 for Cornwall was a talented junior called Michael Adams.

I didn't enjoy the experience much. Everything seemed very artificial.

One game was never finished, as it ended in a dispute which had to be referred to the BCF after the two independent arbiters disagreed. Fortunately the result wasn't important, as Surrey won the match fairly comfortably.

A few years later - I can't remember exactly when - there were serious problems in a telephone match between Maidstone and Dundee in the National Club Championship. This time it did matter; the score was 3-3 and Dundee won on board count. The result stood after the BCF rejected a protest by Maidstone.

Both matches, and the incidents therein, were fully covered in the SCCU Bulletin. If the SCCU ever manages to digitise the back numbers, a whole new audience will be able to read about these and other episodes.

Since that time I think it's fair to say that playing by telephone, although still permitted, has been quietly discouraged.

[Alex Holowczak]

Out of interest, were those telephone matches ever graded? And if there was one in 2010/11, would it be graded?

I was expecting the answer to my question to be sometime before the war, or in the 1950s at the latest, and it was just an archaic rule that no one had ever bothered to ask to change/remove. It does seem though that people unwilling to travel the length and breadth of England to play county matches isn't a modern phenomenon.