English Chess Forum

Ian Kingston wrote:I agree with all of that except for the 'board games' part - IBM's logo doesn't have a computer in it; the BBC doesn't have a TV or a radio; MacDonald's doesn't have a burger; Shell doesn't have a petrol pump; Nike doesn't have a running shoe. Yet we all recognise those logos instantly.

Accepted. However everyone knows what those acronymns mean, even if we have a PC, watch ITV or get petrol from Q8! Their actual names have become the brands. Nobody outside the narrow chess world knows what 'ECF' means. And Shell actually have a shell as their logo! How literal can you get?

Have a look at http://www.ecf.com/ and see what you think of theirs.

Last night I remembered that I had once visited the European Cyclists' Federation website by mistake (they own ecf.com) and that I was impressed with how professional it looked. Their logo is really quite smart:
http://www.ecf.com

Maybe we could pinch this, replacing the moving wheel with something chessy (but not a knight - that's been done to death!).

Edit: I can't believe Adam got there minutes before me.

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:Edit: I can't believe Adam got there minutes before me.

Great minds think alike!

I think their site is a model of economy and delivers the information you need. It's less colourful than

http://www.englishtabletennis.org.uk/

PS I wouldn't know what their logo meant, if I had to guess. PPS You now have to be a member in order to play table tennis in England!

I think Phil Neatherway recently mentioned the need for table tennis players to be members of their national organisation. Was it the Westminster Rapidplay where the organiser (John Sargeant?) ran a table tennis tournament alongside the chess tournament? One member of Hackney Chess Club was a fantastic table tennis player as he worked in a sports centre and played sport of some sort for at least four hours every single day, but he always refused to enter the table tennis tournament as he said he was there to play chess.

I like the idea of three lions in the table tennis logo, it makes a very pleasant change from the Union Flag in everything English. Probably a bit too fiddly for our needs though.

Someone has sent me an alternative, and rather classy logo. See what you think.
Not sure it conveys quite the right impression about the Evil Empire, sorry, the ECF.

Another ECF - the European Curling Federation:
http://www.ecf-web.org/

Nice idea, but wouldn't work so well in black and white.

i dislike option 1.

2 is modern and funky, 3 is what the old guard will vote for 'a classic'

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:Another ECF - the European Curling Federation

I can't resist asking: are they sponsored by the Tongs?

Adam Raoof wrote:

Ian Kingston wrote:I agree with all of that except for the 'board games' part - IBM's logo doesn't have a computer in it; the BBC doesn't have a TV or a radio; MacDonald's doesn't have a burger; Shell doesn't have a petrol pump; Nike doesn't have a running shoe. Yet we all recognise those logos instantly.

Accepted. However everyone knows what those acronymns mean, even if we have a PC, watch ITV or get petrol from Q8! Their actual names have become the brands. Nobody outside the narrow chess world knows what 'ECF' means. And Shell actually have a shell as their logo! How literal can you get?

Have a look at http://www.ecf.com/ and see what you think of theirs.

Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community. Anyone from outside (a potential sponsor?) will soon come to recognise it, so I don't think we have to try to convey any additional message.

The cyclists' logo is fine, if a little staid. I did find myself asking why it uses a rugby ball...

all 3 are rubbish

Ian Kingston wrote:Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community.

That depends how you define 'the chess world' or 'chess community'. We are on the English Chess Forum, and most of us are active players. If you belong to chess club, or go to tournaments, then you might know about the ECF.

However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

"Was it the Westminster Rapidplay where the organiser (John Sargeant?) ran a table tennis tournament alongside the chess tournament? "

John Sargent, and I think the TT was only at the weekend events not the RP.

Reverting to the ECF logo, Adam's latest one looked good, perhaps a bit too evil. If you don't use a knight, it's not always obvious that it's chess.

Adam Raoof wrote: However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

I agree with all of this. However, the question pertinent to this discussion is what can you achieve with a change of logo that you can't with the old logo?

Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

Adam Raoof wrote: choose Proposal 3 – to keep this design

What is the history of this logo? Someone said it was the BCF logo. When was that first designed and by whom?

The current logo dates back to 1981, replacing a previous logo with three pawns. Of course it was, at that time, BCF rather than ECF.

It was designed by John Edward (Jack) Redon (1905-1994), a long standing member of Richmond & Twickenham Chess Club, and, before that, a member of Battersea Chess Club. Jack lived in a very large house a couple of hundred yards from ETNA, which Chris will know well, and back in the 1970s used to host R&TCC committee meetings there. (A few years ago I visited the same house regularly to teach a private pupil, also named Jack.)

Jack was the great-nephew of the French symbolist painter Odilon Redon (1840-1916). By trade he was a graphic artist, designing LP sleeves and suchlike, but he was also a talented amateur painter, many of whose works were to be seen in his house. He was a strong player, at his best between the 1930s and 1950s, who competed in the 1957 British Championship.

[Event "BCF-ch"]
[Site "Plymouth"]
[Date "1957.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Redon, JE."]
[Black "Beaty, JH."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B22"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[EventDate "1957.??.??"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "ENG"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2000.11.22"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. e5 Nd5 5. Bc4 Nb6 6. Bb3 e6 7. d4 cxd4 8. cxd4
d6 9. O-O dxe5 10. dxe5 Be7 11. Qe2 O-O 12. Rd1 Qc7 13. Nc3 a6 14. Be3 Nd7 15.
Bf4 Nc5 16. Bc2 Bd7 17. Rac1 Rfd8 18. Ne4 Nxe4 19. Qxe4 g6 20. h4 Be8 21. Bd2
Bf8 22. h5 Bg7 23. hxg6 hxg6 24. Qh4 Rac8 25. Bb3 Qb8 26. Ng5 Bxe5 27. Qh7+ Kf8
28. Nxe6+ Ke7 29. Bg5+ Bf6 30. Bxf6+ Kxf6 31. Qh4+ 1-0



A contemporary of his at Richmond was another artist, Philip Leighton Poyser (1912-1988), whose works are now collectible. Phil, a real character, provided the illustrations for the London 1946 tournament book and also did some drawings for CHESS. Whereas Jack was from a wealthy background, Phil lived a much more Bohemian life in a small terraced house near Twickenham Green.

Adam Raoof wrote:

Ian Kingston wrote:Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community.

That depends how you define 'the chess world' or 'chess community'. We are on the English Chess Forum, and most of us are active players. If you belong to chess club, or go to tournaments, then you might know about the ECF.

However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

Point taken. But where are they ever going to see the logo? I cannot recall ever having seen the current logo outside the context of the active chessplaying community, and I can't at the moment see how that would change.

I do think that if a way is found to contact these people then a new and improved logo would help by presenting a better image of the ECF, since first impressions do count and the existing logo has a much more dated feel than is appropriate for the 21st century.