A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
TomChivers
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by TomChivers » Fri May 09, 2008 2:00 pm

Re the mass resignations, http://bcmchess.blogspot.com/2008/05/mi ... -2008.html is an amazing read, btw.

Is Martin's letter publicly available, assuming it is accurately described?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri May 09, 2008 2:05 pm

You may also want to pop across to the chess NE1 forum NCCU thread. Is this start of a major breakaway from the ECF, appears so.

I've seen the NE1 forum.

A couple of thoughts from the south.

I'm sure there are management consultants in the chess world. If you applied some of their theories to the organisation of the chess world, would they think that the unions are an additional layer of management whose functions could be pushed upwards to the ECF or downwards to the counties? If you abolished the NCCU, it might even be possible to play weekend county matches between Manchester and the rest of the North.

Where would the finance for international teams come from in a purely domestic organisation? Would you want to select England teams on the basis of obtaining the least worst solution from the following variables?
Rating and international experience
Wealth to finance the trip
Time available to play.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish have to face these issues nearly every year - but they are competing for 30-50 th place in the world and last place in Europe.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri May 09, 2008 2:10 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:You may all want to pop over to the Atticus forum again. Reference to a letter apparently sent by Martin Regan to Gerry Walsh. Very Interesting

You may also want to pop across to the chess NE1 forum NCCU thread. Is this start of a major breakaway from the ECF, appears so.

Its rather sad if half the country has to break away from the ECF because The President clings to office come what may. Being king of the Castle serves no purpose if the castle is empty!

I rather think on balance that it would be better if this precipitated the break up of the ECF and we start again.
The two threads in question are here:-

http://www.atticuschess.org.uk/forum/ph ... .php?t=360

http://peterleechessclub.co.uk/yabb/YaB ... 1210331828
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Sean Hewitt

Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri May 09, 2008 2:46 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:I have been doing some thinking; if I were a government minister aware that the ECF gets a annual grant to support the office I think I would be asking what the hell is going on! Maybe its time someone in authority was pointed in the direction of the ongoing debates.
Ernie, what benefit do you suppose might come from that, aside from perhaps losing the DCMS grant?

David Robertson
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by David Robertson » Fri May 09, 2008 3:03 pm

The DCMS annual grant must now be seriously 'at risk'. Believe me: I know of which I speak :(

In many ways, losing it may be the quickest way to knock sense into relevant heads

David Robertson
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andrew martin

Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by andrew martin » Fri May 09, 2008 3:13 pm

Let's suppose Gerry Walsh does resign. Now the ECF is without a President.

Who would be the best person to take on the job ?

Do not forget the enormous amount of hard work that Gerry has put in over the years please.It is all too easy to criticize, but you need to have someone to put in the place of the departing official.

I do think however, that his position has become untenable.

Andrew

Roger de Coverly
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri May 09, 2008 3:23 pm

Who would be the best person to take on the job ?

Some other sporting bodies use a retired eminent player as their President. For example the next president of the MCC is Derek Underwood replacing Mike Brearley.

The chess analogy would be a "retired" IM or GM. I think you would reduce the duties of the President to a non-executive role and leave running of the ECF to the CEO, the paid staff and the other directors. It is normal practice in public companies to have a non-exec board chairman.

andrew martin

Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by andrew martin » Fri May 09, 2008 4:06 pm

I would support a figurehead President who was good for the image of chess, promoted chess in this country and did not get too involved in the running of the game, or at least if he or she did, wouldn't exert too much power. Infuence yes, power NO.

Andrew

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Charles W. Wood » Fri May 09, 2008 4:08 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Who would be the best person to take on the job ?

Some other sporting bodies use a retired eminent player as their President. For example the next president of the MCC is Derek Underwood replacing Mike Brearley.

The chess analogy would be a "retired" IM or GM. I think you would reduce the duties of the President to a non-executive role and leave running of the ECF to the CEO, the paid staff and the other directors. It is normal practice in public companies to have a non-exec board chairman.

We had Steve Davis as a non working figure head President.. He left and Gerry Walsh became a working President and Gerrys role as Chair got combined with president.- Not good.
I have just killed off the President title in my local league (on agreement) and I only like figure head President rolls and agree with a Steve Davis type person in the roll. There are two mega problems as far as I'm concerned:

1. We have just been through a massive set of resigniations and we need to level off for a short while at least to give the new members of the board some stability. This is not needed but is advised.

2. I am struggling with the "Chess for Schools" project, the sponsors I'm talking to this all looks like bad politics. Its very hard to agrue in favour of a body when they keep resigning (I know this is not the case but perception is reality). So I don't think there will be any damage but delays have been put in so the sponsors can watch what happens next.

Be careful what you wish for, it does have a knock on effect. A reminder; the "possible" parcel sponsor and the manufacturing sponsor Holloid Plastics watch this site hourly; the pallet sponsor Fortec check the forum daily (at least); the financial backers are very clued up so I think they visit every once in a while too.

Too much deconstruction and not enough construction and many projects and things we balance on will stop; Chess for Schools, DCMS, Chess as a Sport, Chess inclusion to Evert Child Matters core offering, paid coaching through "Extending Schools" (three bodies but named as one), and a 6 figure sum of possile sponsorship for Adult chess starting in 2010. etc, etc ,etc this is just stuff I know about, which is not as much as I'd like to know about.

Small foot note: Gerry is involved in most, if not all, of the bits listed. All of it very very good for chess across the whole country.

A restructuring process is obviously needed at some point. But not now, please just not now. I'm knackered.
Charles W. Wood
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Charles W. Wood
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Charles W. Wood » Fri May 09, 2008 5:56 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:How many of those projects was Martin regan privy to?
Privy? I'm sure he knew about some of the projects, DCMS (obviously) but Martin and I discussed Chess for Schools, and Extended Schools a couple of times. The rest I couldn't tell you
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Neil Graham
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Neil Graham » Fri May 09, 2008 10:10 pm

andrew martin wrote:I would support a figurehead President who was good for the image of chess, promoted chess in this country and did not get too involved in the running of the game, or at least if he or she did, wouldn't exert too much power. Infuence yes, power NO.

Andrew
I was at the Board/Council meetings that decided a figurehead President was a good idea. It didn't work insofar as Steve Davis, whilst a perfectly acceptable choice, was unable as he admitted himself to do any promotional work for chess. If the ECF returns to this model it has to be accepted that whilst having a nationally known figure as President may be fine, the liklihood of that person being any more than a name on a sheet of paper is unlikely.

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Charles W. Wood » Fri May 09, 2008 10:34 pm

Charles W. Wood wrote:
Ernie Lazenby wrote:How many of those projects was Martin regan privy to?
Privy? I'm sure he knew about some of the projects, DCMS (obviously) but Martin and I discussed Chess for Schools, and Extended Schools a couple of times. The rest I couldn't tell you
Hi Ernie

I was brought up on a council estate, and I know more fuzz than most in the chess world :wink: . A pig never asks a question unless he (or she) has a reason, so why did you ask, be honest? You know theres something, spill. I know you used to say that.

BTW I'm on the police funding committee but do not tell Calderdale Council. Cops are Cops and I still can run real quick. :D
Charles W. Wood
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Neil Graham
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Neil Graham » Fri May 09, 2008 11:22 pm

I note that Gerry Walsh was elected at last year's AGM unopposed - as indeed he has been at every meeting but one when he saw off a challenge from Brian Driscoll. All the ECF Board were elected "en bloc" last General Meeting with no other candidates. The very people that voted in the Board are now clamouring to leave the ECF - but that's democracy for you.

All that needs to be done is for a relevant number of members to get together and demand an Extraordinary General Meeting of the ECF giving notice that the agenda item is a vote of no confidence in the President. It's not clear to me precisely how many are required (no doubt John Philpott will advise). Once this is done there has to be a meeting called giving 28 days notice to members - a simple majority vote will suffice to get rid of any Director. However to change the role of President will require more constitutional amendments. Perhaps all these people that are whinging might like to get down to thinking of calling a meeting.

andrew martin

Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by andrew martin » Fri May 09, 2008 11:23 pm

I should take over as President. I could then go on a simultaneous display tour of the British isles and bring the feelgood factor back, whilst leaving all the hard work to a well-considered highly-qualified hand-picked team.

Yes, that seems reasonable.

Andrew

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: A demand for the Presidents resignation.

Post by Charles W. Wood » Fri May 09, 2008 11:26 pm

Neil Graham wrote:I note that Gerry Walsh was elected at last year's AGM unopposed - as indeed he has been at every meeting but one when he saw off a challenge from Brian Driscoll. All the ECF Board were elected "en bloc" last General Meeting with no other candidates. The very people that voted in the Board are now clamouring to leave the ECF - but that's democracy for you.

All that needs to be done is for a relevant number of members to get together and demand an Extraordinary General Meeting of the ECF giving notice that the agenda item is a vote of no confidence in the President. It's not clear to me precisely how many are required (no doubt John Philpott will advise). Once this is done there has to be a meeting called giving 28 days notice to members - a simple majority vote will suffice to get rid of any Director. However to change the role of President will require more constitutional amendments. Perhaps all these people that are whinging might like to get down to thinking of calling a meeting.
Good call, Phil what are the requirements. I do feel a little let down by the resignations (but only a little) but as I said in another thread be careful what you wish for. It can cange the good things that are going on,and there is a lot of them.
Charles W. Wood
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