Winners and Losers under 'Membership Only'

[Neill Cooper]

When I was at school, inter-school matches were never graded. I can't think that doing so would be a good idea either.

Some school games are worth grading, other are not.
My experience of running inter-school chess is that many are worth grading.

[Alex Holowczak]

When I was at school, inter-school matches were never graded. I can't think that doing so would be a good idea either.

Some school games are worth grading, other are not.
My experience of running inter-school chess is that many are worth grading.

How much inter-schools chess is there?

Obviously the National Schools...

Surrey has a flourishing junior league, but I think that's the exception rather than the norm. Birmingham's Junior League has all-but vanished, and only Division One (containing two teams) was graded. If they weren't graded, then they'd have lost about £3, so it's not a major disaster.

[Roger de Coverly]

Why you would want to reduce the fee for those who are currently happy to pay for direct membership beats me;

You can add those who are happy to play across multiple leagues, thereby indirectly incurring high levels of Game Fee. Also any remaining players who play lots of Congresses without being Direct or Basic members.

[Alex Holowczak]

Why you would want to reduce the fee for those who are currently happy to pay for direct membership beats me;

Just because the Membership is £18 doesn't mean you aren't allowed to pay £27 if you want to.

[Paul Sanders]

How much inter-schools chess is there?

Obviously the National Schools...

Don't forget the EPSCA championships, which has a lot of support despite involving two weekends at Pontins for successful school teams. Unfortunately this happens outside the auspices of the ECF, so it can't really be the national championship, just a national championship.

[Alex Holowczak]

How much inter-schools chess is there?

Obviously the National Schools...

Don't forget the EPSCA championships, which has a lot of support despite involving two weekends at Pontins for successful school teams. Unfortunately this happens outside the auspices of the ECF, so it can't really be the national championship, just a national championship.

Sure, I was thinking in terms of graded junior chess. As far as I'm aware, EPSCA doesn't grade anything. (Maybe it grades some stuff?) UKCC grades its Terafinal; but this is a congress, so £5 if you're a non-member wouldn't be so bad. All the junior congresses encompassing the JRGP would also be congresses. NYCA hasn't graded its events for a few years now.

I think the Surrey Junior League may be the only thing that gets hit by this.

[Sean Hewitt]

It would not seem too difficult to have a three-tier membership structure which covers, say, Local (Club/League), National (Club and Congress etc), and Premium (including FIDE rating). You then need to juggle the numbers to make it attractive for maximum take-up in each category.

I agree and have suggested something similar myself.

[Alan Walton]

It would not seem too difficult to have a three-tier membership structure which covers, say, Local (Club/League), National (Club and Congress etc), and Premium (including FIDE rating). You then need to juggle the numbers to make it attractive for maximum take-up in each category.

I agree and have suggested something similar myself.

I would also agree with this, though to do this the systems storing the data would have to be 100% clear, so congresses know exactly who has what type of membership individuals have so they can add said non-member fees to their entries.

Maybe something like this

Annual Fee
£10 Local
£15 National
£20 Premium

If you are local entering national then there is a £5 additional fee, local entering Premium £10 additional fee, and finally National entering Premium £5 fee

BTW, here is a link to the Canadian Federation membership structure, similar what people are discussing here, note that payment is made via Paypal and also the do not produce membership cards either

http://www.chess.ca/membership.shtml

It also looks like the states choose their own rate, but $36 of that go to the National Federation

[Roger de Coverly]

BTW, here is a link to the Canadian Federation membership structure, similar what people are discussing here, note that payment is made via Paypal and also the do not produce membership cards either

http://www.chess.ca/membership.shtml

It also looks like the states choose their own rate, but $36 of that go to the National Federation

Don't forget rating fees on top of that

Rating Fees (effective May 1, 2009)

Rating fees – $3/player if using SwissSys (to submit crosstables in CFC format) otherwise $5/player.
Junior tournaments – If all players are juniors, membership dues are not required. Rating fees are $0.50/player if using SwissSys (to submit crosstables in CFC format) otherwise $2.50/player.

But do the Canadians have any leagues as we know them?

(edit) 3 Canadian dollars is about 2 pounds Sterling, so rating fees are in the same ball-park as Game Fee.

[Alex Holowczak]

I wasn't thinking of local/national/premium, because local was a bit difficult to define (arbitrary line in the sand time). I was thinking:
Bronze – League chess ONLY
Silver – Leagues + Congresses + any ECF-run tournament (County Chess, National Club, British Championship events)
Gold – Silver + Anything FIDE-rated; if your league/congress is FIDE-rated, this gets counted here

Entry forms can say that their tournament requires a certain level of Membership to get in. E.g. Sean's e2e4 events would need Silver for the graded-only sections, and Gold for the rated sections.

If someone plays in an event with the wrong tier, then the event can be invoiced the difference. In the case of the ECF-run tournaments in Silver, either the County CA, Club or Individual can be invoiced the difference. The grading spreadsheet can currently print out the number of basic members, so I assume it can print the number of members of any class. Therefore, it can work out how much the Office needs to invoice.

Events can offer the chance to "upgrade" your membership, rather than necessarily buying a new one.

You could perhaps even have Premium/Full/Patron for those who want to donate to the ECF, similar to "Full" Member now. I don't think the membership classes would be confusing to administer, provided the grading spreadsheet prints all the numbers for the Office.

[Ian Thompson]

I wasn't thinking of local/national/premium, because local was a bit difficult to define (arbitrary line in the sand time). I was thinking:
Bronze – League chess ONLY
Silver – Leagues + Congresses + any ECF-run tournament (County Chess, National Club, British Championship events)
Gold – Silver + Anything FIDE-rated; if your league/congress is FIDE-rated, this gets counted here

In which category would you put internal club events, inter-club friendly matches and county individual championships played over the course of a season?

If someone plays in an event with the wrong tier, then the event can be invoiced the difference. In the case of the ECF-run tournaments in Silver, either the County CA, Club or Individual can be invoiced the difference. The grading spreadsheet can currently print out the number of basic members, so I assume it can print the number of members of any class. Therefore, it can work out how much the Office needs to invoice.

... and if payment isn't forthcoming what's the consequence for the event organiser?

[Alan Walton]

I would say internal club events and inter-club matches comes under the remit of League chess, though county championships I would call a congress

If congresses are advertising being an official graded tournament, then to have this privilege then they have to pay up said fees, if they don't then I would just have a "naughty-list" on the ECF website saying it is not an ECF sanctioned tournament, and future tournaments are not graded, admittedly though the ECF could lose some income from this, but at least we maintain some standards within the tournament world

[Alex Holowczak]

I wasn't thinking of local/national/premium, because local was a bit difficult to define (arbitrary line in the sand time). I was thinking:
Bronze – League chess ONLY
Silver – Leagues + Congresses + any ECF-run tournament (County Chess, National Club, British Championship events)
Gold – Silver + Anything FIDE-rated; if your league/congress is FIDE-rated, this gets counted here

In which category would you put internal club events, inter-club friendly matches and county individual championships played over the course of a season?

Internal-club events + friendlies can go in bronze. (Bronze was really just intended for club-only players, of which there are many. So it makes sense to put an inter-club thing in the section I had mentally put aside for club-only players.)

County Individual Championships would go in silver; the spirit of which being it's an external individual event. A bit like a congress. As far as current ECF Articles are concerned, it's a congress.

I've probably forgotten other types of event too.

If someone plays in an event with the wrong tier, then the event can be invoiced the difference. In the case of the ECF-run tournaments in Silver, either the County CA, Club or Individual can be invoiced the difference. The grading spreadsheet can currently print out the number of basic members, so I assume it can print the number of members of any class. Therefore, it can work out how much the Office needs to invoice.

... and if payment isn't forthcoming what's the consequence for the event organiser?

This problem would exist under any Membership - or for that matter, Game Fee - structure. There are all the standard things to consider: Contacting the club/player directly, not grading the event, that sort of thing. That would be something I leave to the wise-heads. I just dreamt up an idea that encorporated Sean and Steve's suggestion of having a tier or two for different things.

- I've just seen Alan Walton's comment; he agrees with my placement of the two events, and I don't immediately have a problem with his proposed sanction either.

[Roger de Coverly]

In which category would you put internal club events, inter-club friendly matches and county individual championships played over the course of a season?

If they are run in or by a county (or league) association, presumably at the basic level. Dig out those old BCF year books, it's basically the BCF's old affiliation scheme again. Perhaps you might simplify things by charging a known amount, call it a levy number perhaps and then give out "individual membership rights" to be distributed as the local association saw fit. Provided the levy amount was paid, all the county's events could be graded regardless of an individual's status. Again you can get the details from old BCF Year Books. You have to be a bit careful about counties and leagues under-declaring their true size. Perhaps that's easier to monitor now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

[Ian Thompson]

- I've just seen Alan Walton's comment; he agrees with my placement of the two events, and I don't immediately have a problem with his proposed sanction either.

But Alan only mentions congresses. I agree that what he says for congresses is reasonable. It's all clearly within the congress organiser's control. It's less clear for leagues though. They won't know a non-member has played in the league until after its happened. It's important to be clear who ends up bearing the cost of players not being members because that determines who is really responsible for policing the system and checking everyone who should be a member is. It also places obligations on the ECF to make sure that everyone who needs to know an individual's membership status can easily find it out.