English Chess Forum

I think this is quiet a important question to ask people.Lets look at a hypothetical question lets say in 12 months time the ECF has become a total shambles and say a union says enough is enough and they deceided to do a union wide grade would that be enough for people or is a national grade more important to you all

It's fine for players who only ever play in the UK, but top players, juniors included, play abroad and in FIDE sanctioned events. For that you are required to be a "member of" your national federation. This is where things get tricky. If FIDE stick with the ECF as the national body then International chess is out of bounds for English players as long as they remain "English"...

How important is a national grade? About zero. FIDE grades have more credibility and prestige, and even internet grades give a measure of improvement.

No importance whatsoever.

In fact, I'd rather not have one or know my opponents.

What did the Prisoner use to say?

For congress organisers, one accurate national grading system with everyone in it would be easiest - the more local grades, the harder it gets e.g. at Bury, we have the (online) ECF database as a starting point, but also have to check the NW ELO list (printed only) and the Yorkshire list (online)

We already have to check the ECF membership list and the NCCU membership list to give the right discounts on entry fees

Just how complicated do you want it to be for volunteers with work and family committments?

I presume that if the NCCU leaves the ECF, they will no longer enter teams in the ECF Club and County Championships, both of which really need a national grading list to work

I think most players want to have an idea of how good they are compared to their peers/opponents - we have recently discussed the local leagues, with the Manchester league, plus the Central Lancs, offering ECF graded games (via game fee and NCCU membership respectively), but the Bolton, Bury & Rochdale, and East Lancs leagues, plus the SE Lancs Summer league, only offering NW ELO grading (but much reduced entry costs)

William Metcalfe wrote:I think this is quiet a important question to ask people.Lets look at a hypothetical question lets say in 12 months time the ECF has become a total shambles and say a union says enough is enough and they deceided to do a union wide grade would that be enough for people or is a national grade more important to you all

Obviously it's important from an organizational point of view, eg County U175 matches would be a joke without nationalized gradings.

Personally I think grading is extremely important if you want to improve, because they provide an objective measure of how you're doing - although there is no particular reason why they should ideally be sub/inter/national.

It is vital! In junior chess it brings a level of competiveness as one player will always want to be above his mate in class and visa versa. My grade is important to me, its low, but its still very important with the view that the ECF worked it out. So its a fair guide. Pride and acheivment is attached to it.

Charles W. Wood wrote:It is vital! In junior chess it brings a level of competiveness as one player will always want to be above his mate in class and visa versa. My grade is important to me, its low, but its still very important with the view that the ECF worked it out. So its a fair guide. Pride and acheivment is attached to it.

I agree, but this is saying why having a grade is vital. You don't say why that grade should be national, rather than international or local, which is what this threat is about. Is there a particularly pressing reason?

TomChivers wrote:

Charles W. Wood wrote:It is vital! In junior chess it brings a level of competiveness as one player will always want to be above his mate in class and visa versa. My grade is important to me, its low, but its still very important with the view that the ECF worked it out. So its a fair guide. Pride and acheivment is attached to it.

I agree, but this is saying why having a grade is vital. You don't say why that grade should be national, rather than international or local, which is what this threat is about. Is there a particularly pressing reason?

To be honest, I don't care what the system is. I know and understand the "Clarke System" but ELO is just as good. I would go with anything put forward as long as it worked. But it would have to be at least national, any thing less than that would cause chaos in junior events, and nationl events.

Sadly I know very little about the whole thing, but watching Leeds CA go through its problems, many years ago when it ran its own grading system, proved that using a small number means it becomes hard to compare. Both Bradford and Leeds Leagues share players and ended up (because both ran their own systems) with two very different grades for the same people. National or International is fine, less is disaster.

There is a very strong negative correlation between a player's grade and the importance that the player puts on that grade. One can see how this would apply to juniors, but in fact this can be observed far more widely. This is why it is critical to link membership to grades, because the bulk of players would be happy to pay for a grade.