ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Adam Raoof
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ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:13 pm

I can confirm that, as previously advised, [Edit: ACTIVE] players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.

This may affect their entitlement to play in any FIDE rated event, including the British Championships, London Classic, 4NCL and any title events. It will also affect their entitlement to remain an ECF accredited coach.

If you are not a member of the ECF and want to maintain your active FIDE rating, please ring the ECF Office (Tel: 01424 775222 ) and join before the end of June.
Last edited by Adam Raoof on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:46 pm

Does this include holders of the B/ECF Arbiter title?

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:52 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:Does this include holders of the B/ECF Arbiter title?
"(b) No Arbiter shall be appointed to his or her post unless the Board is satisfied that he or she has previously conducted himself or herself in a manner befitting such appointment and also he or she satisfies all of the following pre-conditions:
(i) Membership of ECF; and
(ii) Possession of Enhanced CRB Disclosure* at the time of appointment; and
(iii) In the case of ECF Arbiters and ECF Senior Arbiters fulfilment of the appropriate qualifications current at the time of appointment, or re-appointment."

I consider this to mean that an arbiter has to continue be a member, if they wish to continue to hold that post. However that is a matter for the Chess Arbiter's Association, and I won't be following it up at the moment.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:55 pm

OK, but we don't have regulations for BCF Arbiters, so do they retain their title?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:03 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
If you then rejoin the ECF in a future year, does this reactivate the FIDE rating? I'm asking because there may be situations where people are unable to pay for a few years, but would then want to rejoin. And would the FIDE rating be inactive in the intervening period? What about those who play in FIDE-rated events abroad but not in England?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:04 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:OK, but we don't have regulations for BCF Arbiters, so do they retain their title?
My answer to this one is "who cares?". Being a current holder of the BCF Arbiter title and not the ECF Arbiter title probably means "I have no real need for any further recognition of my abilities as an arbiter - those I'd want to arbit for already know about me".

Sean Hewitt

Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:07 pm

In principle this must be the right thing to do.

CK asks an important question especially as some of those at risk of deregistration will be titled.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:13 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:OK, but we don't have regulations for BCF Arbiters, so do they retain their title?
My answer to this one is "who cares?". Being a current holder of the BCF Arbiter title and not the ECF Arbiter title probably means "I have no real need for any further recognition of my abilities as an arbiter - those I'd want to arbit for already know about me".
I guess you're right.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
So tell us what this means in practice? Does this mean that the complete rating history will disappear from the FIDE rating site, or that just an inactive flag will appear?

The blackmail may be good for the ECF's finances but it's hardly an encouragement to think well of the ECF.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
So tell us what this means in practice? Does this mean that the complete rating history will disappear from the FIDE rating site, or that just an inactive flag will appear?

The blackmail may be good for the ECF's finances but it's hardly an encouragement to think well of the ECF.
It's not about money, it's about being fair to the vast majority of players, including you, who pay their ECF membership fees because they play in rated events. What would you prefer us do? Nothing?

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:40 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
If you then rejoin the ECF in a future year, does this reactivate the FIDE rating? I'm asking because there may be situations where people are unable to pay for a few years, but would then want to rejoin. And would the FIDE rating be inactive in the intervening period? What about those who play in FIDE-rated events abroad but not in England?

An email to FIDE after the deadline passes will mean that the player’s FIDE profile would be changed to look like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=8500240 (Nigeria are currently behind in paying their FIDE fees). Reinstatement would follow if outstanding and current membership fees were fully paid up. I can't speak for tournament organisers overseas, but in practice I think you would simply count as unrated.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:41 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
So tell us what this means in practice? Does this mean that the complete rating history will disappear from the FIDE rating site, or that just an inactive flag will appear?

The blackmail may be good for the ECF's finances but it's hardly an encouragement to think well of the ECF.
I suspect an inactive flag. Removing the rating history entirely would mess up things when people try and look up what games a player played when and against who and with what rating (and so on).

Also, if the history is wiped, some people (those who think they entered the rating list too low) will deliberately not pay in order to return to paying later and re-enter the rating list in that future year with an improved rating. This doesn't apply to those with relatively high ratings and titles, of course - for those with titles, you absolutely need to preserve the rating history.

What would be interesting is what the FIDE rating site will show for those who take a "sabbatical" in this way. You would hope there would be a way to distinguish between inactive players who have just not playing for a few years, and those marked as "de-registered".

By the way, this sounds like this would be the first ever lot of de-registrations. Does this confirm that there are those over the past few years who haven't paid ECF membership and who have 'got away with it'? Or have there been de-registrations in the past? Have other countries done this sort of thing?

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:47 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:I can confirm that, as previously advised, players with an ENG country code will be de-registered on 1st July if they have not paid their ECF membership.
If you then rejoin the ECF in a future year, does this reactivate the FIDE rating? I'm asking because there may be situations where people are unable to pay for a few years, but would then want to rejoin. And would the FIDE rating be inactive in the intervening period? What about those who play in FIDE-rated events abroad but not in England?

An email to FIDE after the deadline passes will mean that the player’s FIDE profile would be changed to look like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=8500240 (Nigeria are currently behind in paying their FIDE fees). Reinstatement would follow if outstanding and current membership fees were fully paid up. I can't speak for tournament organisers overseas, but in practice I think you would simply count as unrated.
Thanks for the example. I know the complaint here is directed at FIDE, but that is a bit naff. You lose the graph and the year the title was awarded and lots of other stuff that other people look at. <shrug> It's their site.

One further point. Are you sure that the requirement would be to pay outstanding membership fees? What if someone falls on hard times? Can they not take a sabbatical and then pay again when they are able to? Paying membership for several years in which you might not have played any chess makes no sense. Or to put it another way, if you know you are not going to be playing any chess over the next year, do you really need to pay ECF membership to maintain an active rating? Or is it only those players who have played rated games over the last year that need to pay ECF membership?
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:48 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I suspect an inactive flag. Removing the rating history entirely would mess up things when people try and look up what games a player played when and against who and with what rating (and so on).
I don't think the IRO has the power to wipe out someone's rating history. Their profile will probably just say "Not rated", where previously there was a rating.
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Does this confirm that there are those over the past few years who haven't paid ECF membership and who have 'got away with it'?
I can't speak for the long-term history, because I wasn't a part of it.

The FIDE rule is that you must be a member of a national federation to be on the FIDE-rating list. The ECF are amending this slightly, to say that you must be a member of the ECF to be on the FIDE-rating list as a player registered for ENG. This was always the rule, but I can't comment on whether this was strictly adhered to in the past.

The Board is aware that there are ENG-registered players who aren't ECF Members. You can download the Membership List from the ECF website and conduct your own investigation if you wish.

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Re: ENG FIDE Ratings must be ECF Members

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:52 pm

I can also confirm that for the forthcoming London Chess Classic, that every entrant will be expected to be a member of their Federation.

This applies to the FIDE Open, the two weekend tournaments and the rapidplays, and of course the Classic itself. It won't apply to the Blitz. All ENG players, or players who are English, will have to prove membership on entry.

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