County Finals

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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County Finals

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:25 am

The Open final is to be played between Surrey and Kent presumably somewhere in the Midlands.

We haven't yet had the usual complaints about having to travel a couple of hours or more to meet the county next door.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: County Finals

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:18 pm

"The Open final is to be played between Surrey and Kent presumably somewhere in the Midlands. We haven't yet had the usual complaints about having to travel a couple of hours or more to meet the county next door."

Especially as it is quite likely that at least one car heading North will contain two Surrey and one Kent players...
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: County Finals

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:32 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote: Especially as it is quite likely that at least one car heading North will contain two Surrey and one Kent players...
It can be worse. A Bucks v Herts final featured a game between two players from the same car.

John Moore
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Re: County Finals

Post by John Moore » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:20 pm

Well, if Essex had qualified against one of the other SCCU teams, I can tell you there would have been the usual complaint from me.

David Sedgwick
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Re: County Finals

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:30 pm

There most certainly have been complaints. Hard though it is to believe, not everyone uses this Forum as their sole or even their principal means of communication.

The thread has served to remind me that I need to reply to an email on the subject.

Chris J Greatorix
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Re: County Finals

Post by Chris J Greatorix » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:48 pm

Wasn't there a final 6-7 years ago in which two teams from essentially the same county under different names played in the final?-Did anyone complain then? Probably not. Also, it's like saying in Cup football whereby two teams from the same City end up playing in an FA Cup Semi Final in Wembley. The County Finals are an 'occasion' and this should be embraced.

Sean Hewitt

Re: County Finals

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:13 am

Chris J Greatorix wrote:Wasn't there a final 6-7 years ago in which two teams from essentially the same county under different names played in the final?-Did anyone complain then? Probably not. Also, it's like saying in Cup football whereby two teams from the same City end up playing in an FA Cup Semi Final in Wembley. The County Finals are an 'occasion' and this should be embraced.
Absolutely right, unless you're in the SCCU it seems!

You don't get two 4NCL teams complaining about travelling to a hotel miles away to play each other when they are based locally to each other. It happens, get over it!

Paul Dargan
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Re: County Finals

Post by Paul Dargan » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:05 am

A couple of year's ago there was quite a serious risk that I might end-up playing the other long-distance commuter for 4NCL. Neither of us is paid to play in the 4NCL (for the obvious reason we're nowhere near strong enough) - yet we both choose to fly back from Dubai for some matches each year. I'm pleased to say that my team let me sacrifice myself on Bd 1 against Williams to avoid the possibility of flying 8 hours to play someone from just down the road....

I know that some congresses try to avoid people playing members of their own club (or family) but in general I am against any such arrangements - you enter a tournament, you go into the draw with everyone else and see what happens. In the same way I'm sure the venue for the county finals is booked at the start of the season. Is there a case for delaying the booking until the line-up for the semi's is known??

Alex Holowczak
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Re: County Finals

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am

Paul Dargan wrote:Is there a case for delaying the booking until the line-up for the semi's is known??
No, because then you discover that the planned venue is booked for that weekend. There aren't an abundance of venues in which to hold an event of the size of the County Championship Finals.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: County Finals

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:41 am

Alex Holowczak wrote: There aren't an abundance of venues in which to hold an event of the size of the County Championship Finals.
That's chicken and egg though. If you didn't have a central venue, but ones determined by the teams involved, you only need enough space for 16 boards, which can be almost anywhere.

By the way, where is this year's central venue?

Sean Hewitt

Re: County Finals

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:23 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote: There aren't an abundance of venues in which to hold an event of the size of the County Championship Finals.
That's chicken and egg though. If you didn't have a central venue, but ones determined by the teams involved, you only need enough space for 16 boards, which can be almost anywhere.
Roger's right. Either you have a central venue and make an event of it, or you do away with the central venue entirely and let the two teams arrange a mutually convenient venue.

One thing that should not happen (in my opinion) is a central venue with some matches being played elsewhere.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: County Finals

Post by Adam Raoof » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:45 pm

The County Championship Finals will be held at Moat Community College, Maidstone Road, Leicester, LE2 0TU starting at 1.30pm on Saturday 2nd July, I believe the arrangements for refreshments are as last year.

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David Lettington
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Re: County Finals

Post by David Lettington » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:56 pm

Chris J Greatorix wrote: it's like saying in Cup football whereby two teams from the same City end up playing in an FA Cup Semi Final in Wembley.
Hardly. You can't really compare amateur chess to professional football in a multi-million pound competition.
Chris J Greatorix wrote: The County Finals are an 'occasion' and this should be embraced.
I've only played in one County Finals Day. It was not an 'occasion'. The playing conditions were poor (inadequate toilets, the hall was noisy and the tables were made from rough planks of wood placed over trestles.

I was captain of the Kent U140 team on that day and I don't know of anyone in my team who thought the occasion was sufficient to justify the journey. I don't see how a match played at a venue which is equidistant between the teams would be any less prestigious.
Sean Hewitt wrote:Absolutely right, unless you're in the SCCU it seems! You don't get two 4NCL teams complaining about travelling to a hotel miles away to play each other when they are based locally to each other. It happens, get over it!
I will leave the unnecessary dig at the SCCU to one side, but there are several differences between the two competitions. Firstly, the players in the 4NCL know in advance that they will be playing at a certain venue on a certain date. Players in the County Cups don't. Secondly, players in the 4NCL have to spend a whole weekend at the same venue. Players in the County Cups don't, they could be driving for several hours for one game of chess. Moreover, for many matches, that game could be played at a venue within an hour of their home. Thirdly, players in the 4NCL have more invested in their teams and are likely (in my opinion) to have more loyalty to their team; they are also more likely to be chess players that are keen to play a large amount of games. In my experience, many players in the County Cup teams are infrequent players and play County chess because they only have to spend half a day doing it and not a whole weekend.
Sean Hewitt wrote: One thing that should not happen (in my opinion) is a central venue with some matches being played elsewhere.
I agree with that entirely. I think the two teams should sort out their own venue for each final. Shouldn't the competitions be organised for the convenience of the teams and not the ECF? Unnecessary additional travel seems like an obstacle to playing chess. Surely we should be encouraging more games to be played, not putting up artificial barriers?

John Moore
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Re: County Finals

Post by John Moore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:11 pm

The twice I have played at the Moat Community College I have thought it a dump. Sorry, I can imagine it's convenient for location, size, Cyril and all the rest of it but it's still, IMHO, a dump.

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Re: County Finals

Post by LozCooper » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:15 pm

David Lettington wrote:

Thirdly, players in the 4NCL have more invested in their teams and are likely (in my opinion) to have more loyalty to their team; they are also more likely to be chess players that are keen to play a large amount of games. In my experience, many players in the County Cup teams are infrequent players and play County chess because they only have to spend half a day doing it and not a whole weekend.
I'm not sure this is true. Players often chop and change between 4NCL teams whereas players often play for only one county and therefore feel more loyalty.

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