English Chess Forum

David Robertson wrote:Nigel regards it as offensive. Hence, use the term wittingly only if you intend offense. In that case, don't come over all faint when he defends himself. One-eyed posturing by moderators helps no one .

I understood that one but the point could have been made with perhaps a less offensive term?

Nigel Short wrote:To make it clear, Mr. Hibbard, I object to all people calling me by this name. And just because many people have been impolite does not make it acceptable.

Fair enough, noted

Good afternoon,

A few quick thoughts if I may ...

David Robertson wrote:I doubt Jonathan Bryant knew Nigel's strength of feeling on the matter because I very much doubt he'd have intended gratuitous offensive.

Indeed. I did not intend any offence, gratuitous or otherwise. You are correct in your guess that I didn't know Nigel's 'strength of feeling' about the nickname I used. Actually, I didn't know he had any feelings about it at all.

David Robertson wrote:JB may not even know the context of the appellation.

I know, as I think many folk do, that it's a contraction of an anagram of "Nigel Short". Beyond that, I was only vaguely aware (and remain so).

David Robertson wrote: Nigel regards it as offensive. Hence, use the term wittingly only if you intend offense. In that case, don't come over all faint when he defends himself.

Personally, I'd write the second sentence as something like, "Hence, use the term wittingly only with the awareness that offence will be taken." The first and third I'd leave as they are.

Geoff Chandler wrote:Also cannot see why Carl is so upset over F**K.

F**K doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I think it's about context. I've used the f-word on the blog before and would be happy to again, but I think a forum such as this is a bit different.

Actually, I once wrote out f--k in a post assuming that the profanity blocker would kick in with the asterisks but it didn't. I noticed straight away and edited my post at once, but even though it only took seconds somebody had already noticed and been upset by it. That was fair enough, I think.


Finally,

Nigel Short wrote:Please show a modicum of respect.

I think I do have a due respect for your achievements at the chess board. A few days before your message I'd posted this, for example (you have to scroll to the 10th post down).

I used a nickname for you which I believed - and I think I had good reason to believe - was widely used and was intended as an affectionate term rather than something impolite. While I think it quite reasonable that you point out that this was a misunderstanding on my part, I'm not at all sure that it's reasonable to assume that my use of the nickname was somehow a demonstration of a lack of respect.

Or, to put it another way, I'm not sure many people would consider "N____r" to be a synonym for "f--k face". If you do then fair enough, but I don't see how I can be expected to have known that before you said so.

If anyone is curious, there is an explanation here:

http://www.gmsquare.com/Reviews/aldrichtonymiles.html

One lesson that can be taken from this, I suppose, is to research any 'nicknames' first before using them.

Though I see Jonathan has written on this topic before:

http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... shers.html

Now I'm confused.

Who has the freckly face?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:If anyone is curious, there is an explanation here:

http://www.gmsquare.com/Reviews/aldrichtonymiles.html

One lesson that can be taken from this, I suppose, is to research any 'nicknames' first before using them.

I believe that explanation is incorrect, or at least not the full story, but I could be wrong (although I have good reason to think I'm not). If I am not wrong, that reference I made to the 70s origin in the article of mine that you link to is wrong.


That said, although I am curious as to the origin of the term, David Robertson's point about perception of offence is entirely correct. In that sense, the origins of the term don't really matter.

Jonathan Bryant wrote: That said, although I am curious as to the origin of the term,.

Kingpin I think, with the anagram as the name of a cab driver complaining there were too many GMs in the world. Something about five being enough for the Czar of all the Russias.

Here's the link
http://www.kingpinchess.net/?p=1502#more-1502

Well, yes. I didn't post the link because I didn't want to appear to be stirring it.

Jonathan Bryant wrote:"I don't call you f**k Face"

About twenty years ago I was shocked when I witnessed a five year old calling his mother a sexually active female canine, only more succinctly. Still, I fail to see what this lewd signature brings to the party.

Can anyone reconcile

Jonathan Bryant wrote:I know, as I think many folk do, that it's a contraction of an anagram of "Nigel Short". Beyond that, I was only vaguely aware ...

with

Jonathan Bryant wrote:Well, yes. I didn't post the link (to the origins of this term - SS) because I didn't want to appear to be stirring it.

? Perhaps an imperfect memory?

Jonathan Bryant wrote:I'm not sure many people would consider "N____r" to be a synonym for "f--k face".

It was not intended to be a synonym, but an example of a direct and crude insult. One should look at the sentiment of the sentence as a whole, rather than an individual word.

Jonathan effectively called someone he doesn't know a "g*t" and then expressed surprise when it was badly received. Many English readers would interpret "L." as a misspelling of the Spanish for the definite article, a consequence of all those cheap holidays to Costa del Sol. How can "N____r the g*t" be anything other than an insult when written of a stranger? This was after a series of articles that have been insinuating, without evidence, that there is something not quite right with Nigel's recent simultaneous tours. Admittedly, the target there is mainly CJ.

I prefer subtlety when heaping contumely. In Nigel's shoes, assuming I hadn't lost the plot, I'd have probably written "I don't call you Louise, if I did, I expect you would find it insulting." This would bring to the mind's eye, well at least mine, the picture of the preposterous Louise Bryant in Warren Beatty's ludicrously over the top paean to the author of Ten Days that Shook the World.

How about changing the signature to "I don't call you Louise"? My apologies to Mistress Sinclair. Or better still, drop the signature?

Simon,
I shall have to be brief. Got a county game to get to and I'm a long way away. Perhaps this is just as well.

Simon Spivack wrote: Can anyone reconcile

Jonathan Bryant wrote:I know, as I think many folk do, that it's a contraction of an anagram of "Nigel Short". Beyond that, I was only vaguely aware ...

with

Jonathan Bryant wrote:Well, yes. I didn't post the link (to the origins of this term - SS) because I didn't want to appear to be stirring it.

? Perhaps an imperfect memory?

My memory is certainly imperfect, but in this case it's simply a matter of time. The first post you cite was describing my understanding at the time the offending term was employed. The second was my understanding as of 7:13pm last night. i.e. I found out much more about its origins in between. Actually I found out quite a bit yesterday during the day and was rather equivocal at 5:37pm because I was waiting for confirmation on particular point.

Simon Spivack wrote:Jonathan effectively called someone he doesn't know a "g*t"

Actually, I don't agree I did. You may have known that the use of the N- name wasn't liked by Short, but I didn't. It has been in common usage and employed by many people who I'm quite sure had and have no intention of implying the g-word. I certainly didn't.

I do accept, however, that may well have been how it was received.

Simon Spivack wrote:This was after a series of articles that have been insinuating, without evidence, that there is something not quite right with Nigel's recent simultaneous tours.

I don't want to get into the details of that in this thread, but I insinuate nothing in those articles. I just point out some discrepancies. My suggestion is that it would be better if these are resolved.

It has been suggested to me - and this was my initial reaction, too, I must admit - that Nigel's post must have been influenced by my questions about the simul tour. However, if you search you'll find a similar example from years ago when he responded to the N-name in almost exactly the same way. To be fair to Short, then, his post above doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with whatever he might feel about those questions that I have raised - and of course I have no idea if he feels anything at all.


And finally

Simon Spivack wrote:How about changing the signature to "I don't call you Louise"?

Done. It's my sister's name so it seems rather appropriate.

Without in any way defending the use of any insulting terms I must comment that it is rich that someone who used the terms he did when discussing the previous ECF President should object so strongly to the use of a nickname for himself.

However, now that he has publicly attacked the use of insulting terms perhaps he will now openly criticise Mr Keene for his use of terms such as bigot and brutish when applied to the organisers of the British Championship? I would hate to think that Mr Short employs double standards so eagerly await his posting backing our request for some support from ECF officials with regard to this matter.

As a post script, the terms used by Mr Short when describing Gerry Walsh was one of the reasons given to us by a high ranking ECF official for the ECF not making an official statement condemning Ray Keene's statements. It seems that two wrongs do make a right in some people's eyes.

T-shirt at the Scarborough Congress being worn by one of the more mature entrants -

"I'm Grey! GET OVER IT"

It is not clear if he intends to wear the same t-shirt tomorrow I'll read Twitter tonight to see.

Alex,
Perhaps that T-shirt should say `Lets have more top grade tournaments in the North`.

A plug for the 4NCL Northern League at the Scarborough Congress would not go amiss, if you get chance.
Great event and excellent venues... More teams would be welcome...

Meanwhile...any news on current leading positions in the Scarborough events...

Is it true that players will be offered the alternative choice of `chess boxing` on the beach in place of the last round games.

I can't understand why Nigel is so upset. Anyone who wished to insult him with an anagram of his name could have used 'Hitler Song' or 'Longer Sh*t'. 'Nosher' is clearly used as a term of affection.

He could always call Jonathan Bryant 'Nanny Throat Jab'!

Gerard Killoran aka 'Rank Red Gorilla'.

I have

Beast Sensation
Asbestos Innate
Abstinent Oases
Botanies Sanest

I think Beast Sensation is the winner here.