Tournament dispute from several years ago

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2096
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:47 pm

Post removed in protest at censorship by Forum managers.

The post was relevant to its former home, but obviously someone found it uncomfortable reading!
Last edited by Kevin Thurlow on Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"You are unable to use it (forum) without rancour, unable to refrain from raising old grudges and continually bring it to the point where its owner has to remove posts which could be construed as defamatory of public figures." - P McKeown

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 16081
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:17 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"A sub-committee (comprising A McFarlane, D Welch and R Furness) was set up and many months later it produced a report, saying the arbiter had done nothing wrong.
Although not a long time by the standards of some other chess disputes, this was nearly twenty years ago.

There's a report about the sub-committee report, which may or may not be considered reliable at
http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/Bulletin1994-5.docx
The initial dispute may have been over whether a player has the right to talk to a group of friends between moves. I would say not because of the danger of electronic assistance (not an issue in 1994), and I would hope an arbiter would uphold this.

Any additional discussion on this is best moved to chess history.

Louise Sinclair
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:29 am
Location: London

Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Louise Sinclair » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:51 pm

I'm still awaiting an apology from A McFarlane and co but chess history demonstrates the likeihood being very remote.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2096
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:54 pm

"Rogers is correct. That one is not really needed in this thread"

I was merely pointing out the inconsistency in approach - as you very well know. I have no intention in going over the previous dispute again.

Roger - moves were being discussed...
"You are unable to use it (forum) without rancour, unable to refrain from raising old grudges and continually bring it to the point where its owner has to remove posts which could be construed as defamatory of public figures." - P McKeown

Bill Porter
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Bill Porter » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:32 pm

Louise Sinclair wrote:I'm still awaiting an apology from A McFarlane and co......
I'm still awaiting the minutes and a decision concerning the 25th November 2009 North Circular Chess League appeal ( at which you were an appeal committee member ) concerning points deducted from Enfield chess club after secret evidence was given to the secretary.
Louise Sinclair wrote:...... but chess history demonstrates the likeihood being very remote.
Louise

Louise Sinclair
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:29 am
Location: London

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Louise Sinclair » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Secret evidence? I shal refer this to my husband the NCCL Secretary as I know of no "secret evidence" and you did not attend the comitee meeting despite being invited although other members of your club were in attendence ......
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5503
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:37 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Post removed in protest at censorship by Forum managers.

The post was relevant to its former home, but obviously someone found it uncomfortable reading!
There was no censorship just a move into it's own thread since as you say a little further down the two are unrelated, you were also referring to someone who is sadly no longer with us and I felt uncomfortable with that element of your post

Your original post was left intact though
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I not we
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Alex McFarlane
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Alex McFarlane » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:04 pm

For clarification - I made no protest. I do agree that it is better placed in its own thread.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2096
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:10 pm

"There was no censorship just a move into it's own thread since as you say a little further down the two are unrelated, you were also referring to someone who is sadly no longer with us and we felt uncomfortable with that element of your post"

Really?

I made no derogatory comments about any deceased person and your insinuation that I did so is intolerable. It is an immediate requirement that you apologise for your false accusation and/or delete it.
"You are unable to use it (forum) without rancour, unable to refrain from raising old grudges and continually bring it to the point where its owner has to remove posts which could be construed as defamatory of public figures." - P McKeown

Bill Porter
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Bill Porter » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:18 pm

Louise Sinclair wrote:Secret evidence? I shal refer this to my husband the NCCL Secretary as I know of no "secret evidence" .......
I made an unwarranted assumption in referring to "secret evidence" : I cannot recall any indications apart from your husband the NCCL Secretary's references to it that such evidence exists.



I should have said that your husband the NCCL Secretary stated that Barking had made some sort of complaint concerning an incident where a mobile phone or other device, possibly one of those phones possessed by Barking and Enfield match players, may have made a sound.

Your husband the NCCL Secretary in many of his statements referred to information which he apparently obtained in writing or in conversation with persons who witnessed or heard about this. (My understanding is that the NCCL considers hearsay evidence valid.)

However, statements by your husband the NCCL Secretary describing what he ( I assumed until today ) believed to be evidence combined with a refusal to produce any of that evidence is not generally regarded as proof that evidence exists.

Therefor, if your husband the NCCL Secretary clarifies this matter by stating publicly that the evidence to which he referred does not exist, I will withdraw my reference to "secret evidence" with an appropriate apology.

Of course, this is irrelevant to that long ago final appeal, as until today no official of the NCCL has claimed this evidence did not exist.
Louise Sinclair wrote:and you did not attend the comitee meeting despite being invited although other members of your club were in attendence ......
As Enfield has never been provided with any evidence against it, I felt that attending the appeal was pointless.

The fact that much of Enfield's defense was based on the assumption that the evidence to which your husband referred actually existed and also that the appeal committee's final decision is taking years rather than days confirms the correctness of that decision.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 16081
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:48 pm

He who must not be criticised or mocked is weighing in.
http://stevegiddinschessblog.wordpress.com/

Ian Kingston
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield
Contact:

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Ian Kingston » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:He who must not be criticised or mocked is weighing in.
http://stevegiddinschessblog.wordpress.com/
The irony of someone who allows no comment on his blog posts complaining about a 'Censor-in-Chief' is surely not lost upon the denizens of the termite colony.

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5503
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:28 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I made no derogatory comments about any deceased person and your insinuation that I did so is intolerable. It is an immediate requirement that you apologise for your false accusation and/or delete it.
Please just read again what I posted Kevin as I never suggested anything of the kind, I said I was uncomfortable with the raising of an old dispute

I am stepping back and asking Jack and Sean for their comments on the matter and am happy to be moderated myself if that is the case
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5503
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:29 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:The irony of someone who allows no comment on his blog posts complaining about a 'Censor-in-Chief' is surely not lost upon the denizens of the termite colony.
It's a shame but at least we do allow comments Mr. Giddins
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5503
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: Tournament dispute from several years ago

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:03 pm

Since I am the 'Devil' according to Steve Giddins should I be allowed to post a reply with no comments permitted :roll:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Locked