Online Membership

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Sean Hewitt
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:40 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:Those who've had more dealings with PayPal than me don't like them very much as they can make it very difficult to set up accounts to receive money.
I can't speak about the experiences of others but I have to say that's not my experience at all. When e2e4 started to run more than a couple of events our account got suspended until I sent them proof of ID. I emailed that to them and the account was unsuspended within minutes.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:49 am

Sean Hewitt wrote: When e2e4 started to run more than a couple of events our account got suspended until I sent them proof of ID. I emailed that to them and the account was unsuspended within minutes.
That's the sort of thing I'm told they do. Promote their services, accept your business and then start demanding that you jump through hoops.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:03 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote: When e2e4 started to run more than a couple of events our account got suspended until I sent them proof of ID. I emailed that to them and the account was unsuspended within minutes.
That's the sort of thing I'm told they do. Promote their services, accept your business and then start demanding that you jump through hoops.
I believe they are required to do this under anti money laundering legislation.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:13 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: I believe they are required to do this under anti money laundering legislation.

There's a yes and a no to this. The money laundering Regulations require you to do something although there are any number of exceptions. What organisations actually do is up to them, so they can be as relaxed or stringent as they want to be. Fortunately politicians realised they would be laughed at if they tried to extend money laundering to chess tournaments and similar activity but you could envisage a regulation that if you wanted to pay Keith £ 500 in prize money, that he had to produce his passport and utility bill to prove who he was.

PaulJackson
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Re: Online Membership

Post by PaulJackson » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:29 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:you could envisage a regulation that if you wanted to pay Keith £ 500 in prize money, that he had to produce his passport and utility bill to prove who he was.
I don't know of any bank account that can be opened without having to produce passport, utility bill, or similar identification

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:54 pm

PaulJackson wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:you could envisage a regulation that if you wanted to pay Keith £ 500 in prize money, that he had to produce his passport and utility bill to prove who he was.
I don't know of any bank account that can be opened without having to produce passport, utility bill, or similar identification
Prizes by bank transfer perhaps then? :D

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:01 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: Prizes by bank transfer perhaps then? :D
In case there's doubt, I was suggesting that it would be within the spirit of the Money Laundering Regulations that an organiser had to prove with documentary evidence that they had validated the identity of their prize winners.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:17 am

Sean Hewitt wrote:Prizes by bank transfer perhaps then? :D
Which rather negates one of the claimed benefits of using PayPal - keeping bank account information secret; although it may well be less risky than using PayPal.

If the transaction I referred to above really had been fraudulent it would have required someone to gain unauthorised access to my eBay account to buy something, followed by unauthorised access to my PayPal account to pay for it. All they did was stop me paying for the item using PayPal. I would have expected, at the very least, that they would have contacted me separately to tell me of possible unauthorised access to my account, but they didn't. I'm not aware of them doing anything other than refusing to make the payment.

Andrew Farthing
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Andrew Farthing » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:50 pm

The Online Membership system is up and running - see the notice at the top of the ECF Home page. This takes you to some introductory guidance to the system, from which new members can click through to PaySubsOnline and join online.

New members can now join the ECF online and pay from their PayPal account or by debit or credit card. Their membership is instantly activated.

Over the coming days, there will be further actions as follows:

- Renewal e-mails will go out to any remaining July renewals (i.e. members who have not already renewed) and the full set of August renewals where we have an e-mail address in our records. (Renewals for members without an e-mail address will be mailed as usual.)

- We shall also be sending out e-mails to all other existing members (i.e. with renewal dates later than Aug 2012), advising them of the new system and of their username (their e-mail address) and system-generated password. They don't have to do anything until renewal, when they will receive an invitation to renew, but we'll be inviting them to check and update their personal information if they wish.

- Where we don't have an e-mail address for an existing member, we'll be mailing them a letter telling them about the online system and again advising username and password (many of them will have e-mail and internet access - they simply won't have told the ECF what the e-mail address is). This mailing will also include the 'Quick Guide' to the new membership categories.

- Communications will go out to clubs, leagues, associations and congresses including the information they need on the new scheme, the Excel spreadsheet format (and instructions) for bulk submissions and, where applicable, and an invitation to sign a Framework Agreement.

Existing members wanting to check on their membership profile, etc. will need to be patient for a few days more. I opted for a staged implementation so as to allow us scope to deal with any unanticipated issues and to handle what is at this stage inevitable an unknown volume of queries related to the system. At least two people successfully joined the ECF using the PaySubsOnline system before the announcement appeared, which gives me some confidence that it is as straightforward to use as I found it to be when I renewed my own membership on it yesterday.

The latest membership list is available to all (minus confidential personal information, of course) in the 'Membership' drop-down menu. This will be updated daily. Currently, it is in the same format as before, i.e. an Excel file, which can be searched and sorted. We are planning to switch to a new format which will avoid the need to open the file in Excel. This should be available shortly.

This has been a long time coming, and I am sorry that it has been delivered later than promised. I am grateful to the people at PaySubsOnline and to the ECF office team for their hard work and patience as the project approached delivery.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:00 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote: - We shall also be sending out e-mails to all other existing members (i.e. with renewal dates later than Aug 2012), advising them of the new system and of their username (their e-mail address) and system-generated password.
So what happens in August 2013 when we've all lost or forgotten our passwords?

e2e4 and the ECF itself for the British Championship are well able to collect money on line without the need to recall a password.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:09 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote: New members can now join the ECF online and pay from their PayPal account or by debit or credit card. Their membership is instantly activated.
The ECF might wish to clarify whether the April Council meeting set the three year membership at £ 36 ( 3 * £ (13-1)) or £ 38 ( 3 * £13 - £ 1).

Andrew Farthing
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Andrew Farthing » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:11 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Andrew Farthing wrote: - We shall also be sending out e-mails to all other existing members (i.e. with renewal dates later than Aug 2012), advising them of the new system and of their username (their e-mail address) and system-generated password.
So what happens in August 2013 when we've all lost or forgotten our passwords?
You click on 'Forgot password?' and the system instantly sends you an e-mail reminding you.

John Upham
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Re: Online Membership

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote: You click on 'Forgot password?' and the system instantly sends you an e-mail reminding you.
I'm anticipating follow-up questions to potentially to be "What happens if you do not have an email address? or "How do I renew on-line when I do not have Internet access?" or something even more inane!

Maybe Michael Mates MP has another one of his inscribed watches to give to you as memento for memories of ECF membership!?
Last edited by John Upham on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Online Membership

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote: You click on 'Forgot password?' and the system instantly sends you an e-mail reminding you.
It also sends your password to anyone who knows the password to your email account. It's not really worth having a password, grading code or membership number would work just as well.

John Upham
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Re: Online Membership

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:25 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
It also sends your password to anyone who knows the password to your email account. It's not really worth having a password, grading code or membership number would work just as well.
How many people (apart from yourself) know the correct password for your email account?

I tend not to divulge this information but possibly you are more generous?
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