My Resignation

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex McFarlane
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:21 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:As I understand it, Alex does not accept CJs statement of regret that he overreacted, made on 7-Aug-11, should be an end to the matter. He continues to call for CJs resignation.
Paul, you understand incorrectly. De Mooi's statement of 7-Aug-11 claimed he did not use the word 'homophobia'. This is universally accepted. Many people at the time assumed this to mean that he did not make accusations of that nature rather than simply not using that particular word. The Sunday Times claimed to have a recording of him making accusations that at least one of those involved was homophobic. They refused to releasse this recording to the PCC as they would also have had to release it to me and the Times official dealing with the case claimed that they did not want to do that as I may have used it in legal action against De Mooi. Despite this the PCC still made its decision based on the article being a true reflection of what De Mooi said. I have published the report on this forum so you can check that.

What I have said is that it is long overdue that De Mooi should either deny that he made such allegations (in which case the Sunday Times is in trouble) or, if its allegations are accurate he should apologise to Lara for the trouble he has caused. NEVER has he had the decency to apologise to Lara. I consider an apology to be the minimum that any decent human being would give under the latter circumstances.
I have only called for his resignation if he wishes to continue to remain silent.

Lara intends to continue to work to make this year's British as successful as possible. If she is allowed to do so without attacks on her then I see no reason why she shouldn't fullfil that task.

My understanding is that currently, unlke the Scottish Championships, there is no funding in place to provide conditions for GMs. Indeed it is still not known how much of a profit, if any, was made by Sheffield and which could therefore by carried forward to this year's event. Obviously this is a further handicap to her efforts.

Ernie Lazenby

Re: My Resignation

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:32 pm

Alex I am very sorry but I have say something, you know I have been your most vocal supporter but the issues you have raised and repeated many times go way beyond a personal apology from CJ to Lara. Issues have been raised that relate directly to financial matters and once raised cannot be ignored. You resigned then following Andrews announcement you said you were happy to continue helping Lara with the British. I don't know how Andrew resigning changes matters that much other than it's regrettable he did. It's very clear you have a serious axe to grind against Mr De Mooi and in doing so you raised issues that are of concern.

one would hope that any apology (unlikely)from CJ to Lara does not bring to an end enquiries into issues raised by you and David Welch. In that respect surely your attendance at the next AGM is essential and at the very least there must be an agenda item 'Sheffield gate, the fall out and matters arising' If those present don't Want to do the right thing well then you and Lara can join the ever increasing numbers who have walked away from the ECf.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Ernie,
I have financial concerns over the British 2011, yes. But in many ways it is for others with a better understanding than me to determine whether these merit his resignation. I willingly admit that I am unhappy with what I believe to be the situation but I do not know for sure if there was any impropriaty. I trust that is being investigated. Publication of the full accounts for the 2011 Championships will help others determine that I would hope.

With regard to his treatment of Lara, there I am an expert. I feel De Mooi should explain himself. Did he or didn't he? It is not rocket science. Did he simply say he was banned for wearing a Stonewall t-shirt or did he go further? Simple really. If he didn't go further then what is his motivation in staying quiet?

If I am asked if I want De Mooi to resign, then the simple answer is YES, emphatically. But that is not what was being stated.

Paul Cooksey

Re: My Resignation

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:12 pm

I think Alex is aware that I do not agree with his reading of the PCC report , since we have discussed this point before.

I would not expect to persuade Alex to change his position, but do repeat that I think this impasse is damaging to the ECF. If he believes his dispute needs to be addressed, I think it would be appropriate for him to raise it in a formal way.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:50 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:If I am asked if I want De Mooi to resign, then the simple answer is YES, emphatically. But that is not what was being stated.
Alex, with some regret I have to say we have perhaps reached the end of this thread - you have made your point which I basically agree with however there does come a point at which we are repeating the same old thoughts and conclusions?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Ernie Lazenby

Re: My Resignation

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:18 pm

I agree with Carl. This forum has explored a lot of disturbing issues arising out of the 2011 British Championship and nothing said on here is going to resolve them. I for one believe there are some aspects raised by Alex that warrant more than a discussion and hopefully an official within the ECF will see to it that nothing gets swept under the table. What we have read is not acceptable of any organisation.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Alex McFarlane » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:14 am

I am happy to raise matters in a formal way but it would not be right to call an EGM to discuss the future of the President (if this were to be the motion) before all the relevant information is known.

David Pardoe
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Re: My Resignation

Post by David Pardoe » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:48 am

Ernie,
You and some others are clearly unhappy with the way things are run at the ECF, and some might think you just want the ECF closed down altogether. Rather than just shouting from the touchlines, have you ever thought of putting yourself forward for one of these posts. You (or others), could then show us all how things should be done.
The first thing you will learn is that bodies such as this suffer from two potentially crippling problems. One, they have little or no money. Two...they struggle along, with virtually no resources, except for a few hardy volunteers, who are expected to give up vast amounts of there time for Free, for which they are rewarded by torrents of abuse if things dont go to plan....and very little praise when things do go well (or even satisfactorily).
Mission impossible, if ever I saw it.
I have seen many hidious deeds done within various chess bodies operating under the ECF umbrella...including Unions, County, League, and other club groups/associations.
The very last thing that could be said about many of these bodies is that they are democratic. Some northern bodies may even possibly be amongst the worst offenders.
Yes, we could just close them all down and return to the dark ages.
So, yes, lets have various enquiries, as needs be, conducted through normal channels. But lets not be run by some Kangaroo Court, armed with very few facts, who just seem to scream for heads to roll, without any real consideration for the consequenses, nor the terrific amount of actual good work that has been done.
Yes, Lara, Alex and others might well feel aggreived by some careless words and deeds (perhaps unwisely uttered in the heat of a moment....and which of us is not guilty of this), and actions from the Press. We know that the Press, in many people`s eyes is a law unto itself. Maybe the Murdock debacle will start to redress that.
We`ve seen our bankers/regulators devistate our economy....and all they got was more bonuses, many feel...whilst many others suffer great financial hardship. Very few heads have rolled, so far. Lessons have been learned, so they say.
As regards other accounting and procedural matters...let those too be addressed through normal channels. And if the normal channels dont work, lets fix them and try harder next time. It might help if more delegates actually turned up and asked questions at the right time, rather than just sending proxies. But there will hopefully be other opportunities to ask these questions.
BRING BACK THE BCF

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:42 am

We now have an interesting "how far is Ray prepared to go" question - and this time it's more difficult than ever before.

Can he really bring himself to tweet "David Pardoe - eloquent writer - straightforward common sense" ?

Ernie Lazenby

Re: My Resignation

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:56 am

David you seek to make me the main focus of your comments? okay fine I will do the same. People like you live in a dream world of make belief where all is well and everyone likes each other, no one does wrong but even if they do all manner of excuses are made. Its very obvious to all who read this forum which camp you occupy and have done from the start.

In the real world people do horrible things, do deceitfull things, do things wrong, have their own agendas and need to be accountable even if they are volunteers. The problem is getting someone to stand up and say it as it is because in general people dont have the fortitude to deal with others face to face on a one to one basis. That said when someone comes along who is able to get a grip, make himself unpopular by doing whats right in organisations such as ours they become hated and obstructed, thats a fact. Martin Regan found that out.

If I felt there was the remotest chance of achieving anything positive in the ECF as an official I would be very happy to stand for office however under the current system I dont see any such possibility and therefore decline your suggestion. Yes I think the ECF is currently a morally bankrupt organisation that does little for the average chess player and would happy if I did not have to be a member but I do to get a grade and my local association requires us all to be members.

I have responded in kind but as Carl had said this thread has run its course.

John McKenna
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Re: My Resignation

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:00 am

Don't know if this will pass the 'relevance' censorship test but I cannot resist putting my pennyworth into this - what I would now call the flogging dead horses topic - one last time.
Nothing personal, as they say, but why don't the defenders of the status quo (i.e. current ECF president, board, council, etc.) realise that something serious happened (and T-shirt gate was just the final straw) at the British in Sheffield and it needs to be reconciled for the sake of all involved in the next championships.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

geoffgammon
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Re: My Resignation

Post by geoffgammon » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:05 pm

I find the 'head in the sand', 'nothing to see here' and especially 'people get hurt, get over it' (my words, these are not quotes) attitudes utterly unbelievable!

I am a small voice in this matter and I would not be surprised if I was told 'you don't know the full facts'. My response would be 'then let's hear the full facts' isn't that what transparency is?

I look forward to my opinions being so insignificant as to be ignored completely.
He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is obviously as confused as I am!

Matthew Turner
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:26 pm

I think many people would be surprised by the scope of this forum. From my experience lots of people read this forum without contributing (for whatever reason). It only needs one of these people in each club for the ideas expressed here to have a very wide airing in the wider chess community. I think Geoff and John's views will be widely held by these silent forumites.
I think John is absolutely right that T-shirtgate was not an isolated occurence. It happened at the end of a two event and I am sure that it was magnified, if not directly created, by frustations and annoyances (from everybody) built up over a long period. Sheffield 2011 is unusual because these frustrations and annoyances came to the fore in a very public way, but they have existed in the past and have been just as damaging to British Chess. I expect North Shields 2012 will be no different.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi Matt.

My view in a nutshell.

CJ wore a tee shirt that by accident or design would have been the main focus
in any picture taken at the prize giving.

"He is the prize winner but look at the tee-shirt."

Lara seeing a possible objection from parents etc asked if the tee-shirt was appropriate.

CJ stormed off claiming foul play. To his credit he admitted he over re-acted.

The End.

Suddenly RK prints in the Times the homophobic tripe.....

Alex and Lara have always had my support in this matter.
After my post I was PM'd by Alex and filled in on more details.
He and Lara have been badly treated.
I knew that already and have always given them my support.
I just did not realise how badly they were treated.

This is not going to go away.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: My Resignation

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:55 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:I think many people would be surprised by the scope of this forum. From my experience lots of people read this forum without contributing (for whatever reason). It only needs one of these people in each club for the ideas expressed here to have a very wide airing in the wider chess community.
We currently get around 2,000 unique visitors per day on average
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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