ECF Vacancies

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:19 pm

John Upham wrote:Do we know who is in the frame to accept the mantle of IRO? Anyone stepping forward?
This isn't what you asked, but since I end up being volunteered for things like this, I am happy to declare that I am officially out of the running!

John Philpott

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by John Philpott » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:55 pm

Ian Thompson wrote
What does this mean for production of the 2012 Yearbook? Should it not have been published by now?
I understand that copies have been mailed out by the Office.

John Upham
Posts: 5058
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by John Upham » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:50 pm

A few days have passed. Have any candidates for IRO come to light?

I wonder if Lawrence Cooper would be interested in taking on this role?

No doubt Sean Hewitt would do an excellent job but it would be a no brainer for detractors to suggest a conflict of interest.

Is it cast in stone that the IRO remains under the remit of the DoHC?
Last edited by John Upham on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

John Philpott

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by John Philpott » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:31 pm

John Upham wrote
It is cast in stone that the IRO remains under the remit of the DoHC?
The April Finance Council meeting will be considering a motion from Sean Hewitt that "Council instructs the Board to move responsibility for International Rating from the Home Director to the International Director".

John Upham
Posts: 5058
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by John Upham » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:46 pm

John Philpott wrote:The April Finance Council meeting will be considering a motion from Sean Hewitt that "Council instructs the Board to move responsibility for International Rating from the Home Director to the International Director".
This would appear to be eminently sensible. Do we know what the downsides are claimed to be be if this change is made?

Do we know the views of the current DoIC on this proposal?
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19264
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:04 am

John Upham wrote:
This would appear to be eminently sensible. Do we know what the downsides are claimed to be be if this change is made?
The downside is obvious.

To process an event for ECF grading requires data to be submitted as to who played and the result.

To process an event for FIDE rating requires data to be submitted as to who played and the result.

So a duplication.

Having said that, there might be merit in concentrating the relationship with FIDE on the International Director, the FIDE delegate and the President.

Neville Belinfante
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Neville Belinfante » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:14 am

I can confirm that
1 - I applied for the position of IRO when Howard Grist was first appointed something like eight years ago.
2 - I would not be interested if approached now.

Regards

Neville Belinfante

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:17 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote:
This would appear to be eminently sensible. Do we know what the downsides are claimed to be be if this change is made?
The downside is obvious.

To process an event for ECF grading requires data to be submitted as to who played and the result.

To process an event for FIDE rating requires data to be submitted as to who played and the result.

So a duplication.

Having said that, there might be merit in concentrating the relationship with FIDE on the International Director, the FIDE delegate and the President.
As it stands, I have to submit the data a FIDE rating file to the IRO (whomever that might be) in the format dictated by FIDE and I have to submit the same data to the ECF grading administrator (Richard Haddrell) in the ECF grading format, which is ofc ourse different to the FIDE rating format. So the duplication you refer to exists at the moment.

I do believe that ECF should endeavour to accept FIDE rating files directly into the ECF grading system. However I don't think that that has any bearing on which Director is responsible for the work of the IRO. It would mean that the IRO job entails some FIDE rating and some ECF grading work.

It is worth remembering though that as well as FIDE rating international events held in England (such as e2e4 and 4NCL), the IRO is also responsible for things like processing title norms and making title appliations (GM / IM etc). It seems clear to me that this sits better with the International rather than Home Director, as does the IRO role overall. In fact, I seem to recall that it used to be part of the International remit (though I may be mistaken).

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:20 am

John Upham wrote:No doubt Sean Hewitt would do an excellent job but it would be a no brainer for detractors to suggest a conflict of interest.
I wouldn't do the job because of the potential for (or perception of) a conflict of interest. One of the roles of the IRO is to confirm the veracity of the event and clearly it would not be possible for me to do that for e2e4 events.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19264
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:36 am

sean hewitt wrote: In fact, I seem to recall that it used to be part of the International remit (though I may be mistaken).
The BCF usually structured itself with a "Director of Grading" and that included international rating and FIDE title requests. There had been an "International Grader", presumably since FIDE rating started in 1970 although Golombek as FIDE rep got involved in title applications.

The BCF had an unwieldy board of twenty five or more containing Union reps as well. In fact, you couldn't always see where the Board ended and Council started. For whatever reason, the ECF on its formation went for a much smaller board. As a consequence, some of the posts were downgraded to officer level. That included grading (incorporating international rating) which became part of "Home".

Sean Hewitt
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:51 am

Thanks for that Roger. Perhaps the decision to stick it all in Home when the reorganisation occurred was not properly thought through. However, we have a chance to correct that now.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4157
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:00 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
sean hewitt wrote: In fact, I seem to recall that it used to be part of the International remit (though I may be mistaken).
The BCF usually structured itself with a "Director of Grading" and that included international rating and FIDE title requests.
Roger, that wasn't always the case. What Sean says is correct.

When I was BCF International Director from 1995 to 1999, the IRO reported to me. He also did some related ECF grading work, for which I was not responsible. That arrangement didn't cause any problems.

This structure continued until 2004, when the then IRO departed the scene in circumstances which I believe that we've been asked not to describe on this Forum. It was only at that time that the BCF transferred the responsibility so that the new IRO reported to the Director of Grading. Then, as you (Roger) correctly state, the whole of that Director's remit became part of the responsibility of the Director of Home Chess when the ECF was established a year or so later.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andrew Farthing
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:39 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Andrew Farthing » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:03 am

John Upham wrote:
John Philpott wrote:The April Finance Council meeting will be considering a motion from Sean Hewitt that "Council instructs the Board to move responsibility for International Rating from the Home Director to the International Director".
This would appear to be eminently sensible. Do we know what the downsides are claimed to be be if this change is made?
If Council supports the idea of the ECF applying for charitable status, International Chess will move to a separate, non-charitable organisation. Responsibility for FIDE rating would stay with the national federation, i.e. the body affiliated to FIDE. If approved, this proposal might find itself needing to be reversed in six months' time.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19264
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:32 am

Andrew Farthing wrote: If Council supports the idea of the ECF applying for charitable status, International Chess will move to a separate, non-charitable organisation. Responsibility for FIDE rating would stay with the national federation, i.e. the body affiliated to FIDE.
You could have a separate body to run the national championship and pay the players for Olympiad and other team events. If the "charity" is to remain the FIDE affiliate, it has to retain all that goes with that, namely a FIDE delegate and someone responsible for international activities, even if these are reduced to the IRO activities of rating and title applications. Actually as the teams are sent in the name of the Federation, it's not obvious how the separate body could even send a team, except as a franchise or subsidiary of the "charity". If it's a franchise or subsidiary, is this even allowed under the proposed charitable status?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19264
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:41 am

David Sedgwick wrote: When I was BCF International Director from 1995 to 1999, the IRO reported to me..
One of those moveable posts then. A 1981 statement of BCF Director's responsibilities makes it a responsibility of the Director of National Grading
... whose names should be submitted to FIDE for international playing titles
Going one stage further, who should be responsible for suspending a player's listing on the FIDE site?

Post Reply