Finance Council Meeting

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
John Philpott

Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by John Philpott » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:31 pm

All over. There was just time for some debate on the County Championship rules, with a straw poll favouring the introduction of a 10 point rule.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:43 pm

As I posted a few days ago:

I'd also be grateful if, subsequent to the meeting on Saturday, anybody were able to state whether any formal letter has been sent to Mr de Mooi in relation to his disbursement of financial support at last year's Championships - and if so whether any reply has been received. (If the answers are yes and no, respectively, it would also be interesting to know what course of action is proposed.)
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:59 pm

John Philpott wrote:All over. There was just time for some debate on the County Championship rules, with a straw poll favouring the introduction of a 10 point rule.
Dammit, I was hoping you'd have all the other changes too. The minutes secretary didn't get all of them either. :cry:

The only change that didn't ... well, change, was that the dates for the Counties remain the same, but the Final gets graded in the current season by fiddling the date in the grading file.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:08 pm

John Philpott wrote:Carl Hibbard wrote
Lunacy for 6K per annum that has to be some sort of specification somewhere?
I did not say that there was not a specification: the disgreement was over whether this should have formed part of the paperwork for the meeting (the volume of which has been criticised on another thread) or was going into detail which it was not the role of Council to consider.
I stand corrected and many thanks for the reporting John, it would be "nice" to report at some point what people are getting for their money on this one :roll:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Richard Bates
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:17 pm

John Philpott wrote:All over. There was just time for some debate on the County Championship rules, with a straw poll favouring the introduction of a 10 point rule.
A ten point rule based on July grades or January grades?

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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:28 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
John Philpott wrote:All over. There was just time for some debate on the County Championship rules, with a straw poll favouring the introduction of a 10 point rule.
A ten point rule based on July grades or January grades?
Since the Final Stage runs April through the first week in July, the January grade, since that would be the current list.

Eligibility would still be determined by the July list. The SCCU rule of using a January grade for ungraded players in July will be adopted at the Final Stage.

Mick Norris
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:32 pm

John Philpott wrote:Meanwhile at the Boleyn Ground it is West Ham 6 (Vaz Te 3, Nolan, Cole, Dicker og) Brighton 0. Given that West Ham beat Blackpool 4 - 0 on the day of the AGM last October, Sean Hewitt has suggested that it would be in West Ham's interest that I missed more matches.
John

Those were my thoughts this afternoon when I caught the score just before the Grand National started :lol:

I was wondering whether you would be pleased with the score, or gutted that you missed the match?
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Mick Norris wrote:I was wondering whether you would be pleased with the score, or gutted that you missed the match?
This is almost worth asking as a Matter Arising at the AGM in October. :lol:

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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:37 pm

My difficulty, although I wasn't at Gigg Lane this afternoon, is Bury lose when I go to ECF meetings, and win when I don't :)
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JustinHorton
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Ah, the Cemetery End.

As was.
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E Michael White
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by E Michael White » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:52 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote: (b) Is the server location issue something to do with national boundaries? Very much not my area of expertise but our servers at work are located in America which causes legal issues to do with the transport of data abroad. Just a thought.
cvent appears to be an American company, so its servers are presumably in the USA. If anyone compelled against their will to become an ECF member to continue with their chess activity wished to cause an issue, refusing to agree to their data being transferred out of the UK/EU is certainly one.
Transferring dates of birth to the USA could give you a headache. They sing DPA in a different key with safe harbor stuff. The USA is not even in the 2nd and 3rd list of exceptions outside the EEA. Anyway we don’t need dates of birth it’s just that the ECF haven’t realised this yet.

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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Philpott wrote: The principal changes were the quartering of the proposed Game Fees for juniors and the deletion of the 85% rule.
You might want to explain that in more detail.
This is what was passed
GAME FEE RATES FROM 1 SEPTEMBER 2012 wrote: Paragraph 4.6 of the Game Fee Bye Laws are were amended in October 2011 to state:
The payment of Game Fee is hereby waived …. with effect from 1st September 2012 in respect of games played by Direct Members in competitions organised by the Federation (including the British Championships, the National Club Championships and the National Stages of the Counties Championship) and competitions registered pursuant to 4.3 hereof (i.e. competitions run by Chess Leagues Congresses and Clubs which are registered by 31st October).
So Game Fees will only be payable in respect of games (or half games) played by non Members:
The Board proposes the following level of Game Fee for results as from 1 September 2012: the alignment of all rates for standard graded games at £2 and for rapidplay graded games at £1 is consistent with the relative voting entitlements under Article 30 that will apply from 1 September 2012.
(a) Standard graded games - £2;
(b) Rapidplay graded games - £1;
(c) Standard graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions) - £2;
(d) Rapidplay graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions) - £1:
Provided that:
(1) for Congresses the respective rates shall be reduced to a total fee per event of £6 per adult player and £4 per junior player irrespective of the number of games played and where a Bronze Member takes part in a Congress such fee shall be effective to upgrade his or her membership for the year in question to a Silver Membership.

Rates for junior events
(e) Standard graded games played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events – 50p;
(f) Rapidplay graded games played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events – 25p:
(g) Standard graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events) – 50p:
(h) Rapidplay graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events) – 25p:
where each graded game will comprise two results and Game Fee shall be payable for each result (all of which terms are defined in the Game Fee Bye Laws).

Michele Clack
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Michele Clack » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:16 pm

When do the new rules for the County competitions come into play?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:20 pm

The ECF Council and Board really think that it can manage to either

(a) to get every league player signed up as an ECF Bronze member regardless of how few games they play
or
(b) to get leagues to pay £ 2 per game per head for non members and that they (leagues) can collect this from clubs

without the third and fourth alternatives becoming popular

(c) the league withdraws wholly or partly from ECF grading.
or
(d) players cease league play and clubs and leagues fold.

Paul Buswell
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Re: Finance Council Meeting

Post by Paul Buswell » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:26 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Philpott wrote: The principal changes were the quartering of the proposed Game Fees for juniors and the deletion of the 85% rule.
You might want to explain that in more detail.
This is what was passed
GAME FEE RATES FROM 1 SEPTEMBER 2012 wrote: Paragraph 4.6 of the Game Fee Bye Laws are were amended in October 2011 to state:
The payment of Game Fee is hereby waived …. with effect from 1st September 2012 in respect of games played by Direct Members in competitions organised by the Federation (including the British Championships, the National Club Championships and the National Stages of the Counties Championship) and competitions registered pursuant to 4.3 hereof (i.e. competitions run by Chess Leagues Congresses and Clubs which are registered by 31st October).
So Game Fees will only be payable in respect of games (or half games) played by non Members:
The Board proposes the following level of Game Fee for results as from 1 September 2012: the alignment of all rates for standard graded games at £2 and for rapidplay graded games at £1 is consistent with the relative voting entitlements under Article 30 that will apply from 1 September 2012.
(a) Standard graded games - £2;
(b) Rapidplay graded games - £1;
(c) Standard graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions) - £2;
(d) Rapidplay graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions) - £1:
Provided that:
(1) for Congresses the respective rates shall be reduced to a total fee per event of £6 per adult player and £4 per junior player irrespective of the number of games played and where a Bronze Member takes part in a Congress such fee shall be effective to upgrade his or her membership for the year in question to a Silver Membership.

Rates for junior events
(e) Standard graded games played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events – 50p;
(f) Rapidplay graded games played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events – 25p:
(g) Standard graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events) – 50p:
(h) Rapidplay graded games submitted by clubs (for internal club competitions played between junior players under the age of 18 in solely junior events) – 25p:
where each graded game will comprise two results and Game Fee shall be payable for each result (all of which terms are defined in the Game Fee Bye Laws).
I haven't actually read the Finance papers in detail - well, truth be told, not at all - reckoning that 'sufficient unto the day' etc...

No doubt the Leagues in which we play will brief the Hastings Club in due course, and their AGMs will give us the chance for input. But at a more parochial level, what is the situation on Corporate Vice-Presidents? As one such our internal games have enjoyed exemption from Game Fee. Does that continue in any guise? I am mindful also that we paid three years CVP membership up front, as I recall.

Thank you

PB

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