ECF Membership FAQs

[Adam Raoof]

There is a solution - I have already spoken to organisers who have considered having a dedicated pc available so that players can join the ECF at events.

Or a smartphone? Or, better still, why not allow Congress organisers to accept a Silver (or higher) membership payment rather than the pay-to-play fee?

Indeed they could do either - but that would be up to the organisers. In the States and most of Europe it is normal to join the Federation at a tournament or a club. There is usually a positive financial incentive (commission), so I am not sure that model would work here.

[Roger de Coverly]

[ In the States and most of Europe it is normal to join the Federation at a tournament or a club. There is usually a positive financial incentive (commission), so I am not sure that model would work here.

There's also a negative incentive. If you don't join, you aren't included in the pairings. Internationally rated events or those designed with cross-border appeal usually exempt non domestic players. For that matter England has this system for FIDE rated events, although not, it would appear, for FIDE rapid play events. The ECF Office staff have been known to attend the first of the 4NCL weekends specifically to enable membership collection.

[Alex McFarlane]

And yet again my question is ignored by an ECF Official who answers someone else.

Also a clarification of Adam's post. SOME congress organisers may have been asked but not all. Will the ECF pay the Internet connection fee for events where the venue doesn't have free WiFi?

[Roger de Coverly]

Will the ECF pay the Internet connection fee for events where the venue doesn't have free WiFi?

The latest smart phones have a feature called "wi-fi hotspot". You switch this on and your laptop can access the internet in its usual manner. You password protect the hotspot to prevent unauthorised use. It's not free since it comes out of your 3G data package which are variably priced.

The bigger problem is likely to be that someone joined a year earlier and whilst they can easily establish their grading code and last year's membership code, remembering their profile id and password is likely to be a problem, particularly if they joined through an MO and never really knew what it was in the first place.

If the ECF is going to be annoying and demand money from individuals as a condition of taking part in a chess event, taking the money needs to be as painless as possible and tangling that process up with membership profiles and passwords to access them is putting a higher priority on "membership" than on collection.

[Alex Holowczak]

It's not free since it comes out of your 3G data package which are variably priced.

I have Internet usage of 1GB built into my phone contract. This is enough so that I can basically use it whenever I want, and not exceed the limit. If I had to pay for the amount of time I used it, I'd probably use it a lot less.

Basically, if I became a member (signed a contract) I used it more than if I paid Game Fee (per use). Perhaps there could be a lesson in that...

[Mike Gunn]

I think Alex's question is answered in the FAQ:

"Isn’t there a problem for congresses taking place in September or October, i.e. before many players in MO areas have renewed their membership?

"Members will be notified of the expiry of their membership in advance. If they are from a Membership Organisation area, which typically will submit memberships en bloc towards the end of October, and are planning to compete in a congress in September or October, they would be strongly advised to renew directly with the ECF – online, by phone or by post – before entering the congress. In this way, they can be sure of obtaining the discount available if they are Silver members or higher.

"Similarly, it is recommended that congress organisers whose event takes place in September or October include a clear reminder on their entry forms of the need for Silver members and above to ensure that they have renewed their membership in good time, particularly if from an MO area."

[John McKenna]

Alex H>I have Internet usage of 1GB built into my phone contract. This is enough so that I can basically use it whenever I want, and not exceed the limit. If I had to pay for the amount of time I used it, I'd probably use it a lot less.

Basically, if I became a member (signed a contract) I used it more than if I paid Game Fee (per use). Perhaps there could be a lesson in that...<


There may be more than one lesson in it - one of which could be that one day mobile phone companies, desperate to improve their revenues, will make being on PAYG more expensive than having a contract (they will of course justify it in the same way as above, i.e. with a contract you can use the service more than on PAYG). Sorry to have to point that out Alex.

[Roger de Coverly]

"Members will be notified of the expiry of their membership in advance.

He was at least as concerned about new players who by definition do not have a membership to expire.

In my mind, it demonstrates the relative pointlessness of MOs, that you have to ignore them in order to enter an early season Congress.

[Roger de Coverly]

There may be more than one lesson in it - one of which could be that one day mobile phone companies, desperate to improve their revenues, will make being on PAYG more expensive than having a contract (they will of course justify it in the same way as above, i.e. with a contract you can use the service more than on PAYG).

They already do. I have a PAYG 3G dongle for mobile broadband. This cost £ 10 a month, but only if I use it. By contrast the smartphone is on a contract bundle. But then I was forced to sign for this, the minimum cost which gives me more than I'm likely to use, as like residual Game Fee, the pay as you go charges for internet access were completely ridiculous.

[Mike Gunn]

For new members surely the simplest thing is to have a supply of membership application forms available? (And post the form and payment to the ECF office on behalf of the new member.) This is what we currently do for non-members who want to enter a FIDE rated section of our congress.

[Roger de Coverly]

For new members surely the simplest thing is to have a supply of membership application forms available? (And post the form and payment to the ECF office on behalf of the new member.) This is what we currently do for non-members who want to enter a FIDE rated section of our congress.

You may recall that opponents of membership schemes pointed out the extra processing costs in the ECF Office that such schemes incur. Is it not the case that the paysubsonline thing is meant to reduce Office workload even on managing the existing scheme?

Both MOs and on line membership were attempts to have a individual "membership" scheme without having to pay the associated running costs in Office staff.

Alex was I think most worried about players who had already, whether they knew it or not, joined the ECF as Bronze through an MO but who were entering or playing a Congress before the deadline for submitting MO data to the ECF. So unless there's an upgrade form, a supply of new member forms isn't helpful.

[Alex McFarlane]

Roger understands the point I was making!

A player may want to join a MO as a sign of loyalty (even paying the extra pound).

Mike's answer raises another question. If someone plays in a congress after taking out Bronze membership and pays the extra £6 to play in a congress that is relatively simple. But if the player enjoys his 1st congress experience and then enters another the next week, how does the second congress know that he has already paid the upgrade? Does the second congress charge the £6 again in the knowledge that the ECF will refund it or does it trust the player and face a bill from the ECF?

A simple question which allows a Yes/No answer (so beloved of the FIDE delegate), does the online system allow the player to upgrade? If it doesn't then it is fatally flawed.

[Carl Hibbard]

It is a long topic but wasn't the idea that several registrations and or/payments could be uploaded at once at some point?

I forget now

[Roger de Coverly]

Does the second congress charge the £6 again in the knowledge that the ECF will refund it or does it trust the player and face a bill from the ECF?

I don't think either. This is what the FAQ says

It is strongly advised that any Bronze members planning to play in more than one graded congress in quick succession upgrade to Silver or higher before the first event. Otherwise, it is likely that the member might find him- or herself paying the higher, undiscounted entry fee for each event, which would be more expensive than a one-off upgrade to Silver.

Although that doesn't say what it looks like from the Congress Organisers viewpoint. The grading/billing software can do a simple Yes/No to "Is the person on the current membership list?". So if no, from the software viewpoint it will spit out another demand for £ 6. If the Congress organiser had charged the extra £ 6 and the data had caught up in the meantime, the Congress has gained £ 6. If, on the other hand, the Congress waived the £ 6, but the data still hadn't caught up, there Congress is £ 6 out of pocket.

does the online system allow the player to upgrade?

I think it is assumed that it will be capable of doing this. The demo implies that the administrator can create and bill charges to members almost at will. Not being able to access the system because you don't know or have forgotten your user id and password is likely to be more of a problem. In the first thirty months, there are an alarming number of different charge amounts the ECF can levy where players are existing Direct Members.

[Roger de Coverly]

It is a long topic but wasn't the idea that several registrations and or/payments could be uploaded at once at some point?

MOs are expected to prepare the data on a spreadsheet and email the result to the ECF Office. I'm not sure how they are meant to pay; is it the old fashioned way with a cheque?

What is the format for submitting membership details to the ECF?

Details will be provided with the formal invitation to sign a Framework Agreement. The schedule will take the form of an Excel spreadsheet.

The system requirement was that the data could be uploaded from a spreadsheet. There was doubt as to whether the C-Net system had this feature.