Publicity Officer

[Krishna Shiatis]

I remember what it was like to be a child.

Do you?

Then it was care free times, I could climb trees, run barefoot and play with a catapult.
These days my son is being told to wear protective goggles to play conkers
and school sports day has been cancelled because the fat kids cannot run.

Does this mean all kids should be punished?

But to pretend it never happened and brush it under the carpet is worse than
saying nothing. This pattern of not naming players who make a blunder - and it's
crept into the adult world as well is silly.

I am not pretending it never happened. I am not saying that we say nothing. Please do not misinterpret me. I am saying that we do not need to personalise it.

There is a difference.

[JustinHorton]

.
These days my son is being told to wear protective goggles to play conkers
and school sports day has been cancelled because the fat kids cannot run.

What school is that?

[John McKenna]

I should probably stay under cover but I must just say that Krishna is like a tigress defending the cubs and Geoff the tiger who wants them to learn to roll with the blows in rough-and-tumble play. Both have the youngsters' best interests at heart but are coming at the situation from opposite directions. However, they're both intelligent humans so sense should prevail.
Justin asked for the name of a school but to name one might be unfair as many seem to be following the safety-first rule. Anyway, I'm off...

[Bill Porter]

Justin asked for the name of a school but to name one might be unfair as many seem to be following the safety-first rule. Anyway, I'm off...

Just read rhe Daily Mail for all the facts...... you will find plenty of examples where they withhold names as that would require them to waste their time providing proof.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Krishna.

Yes I do remember what it was like being a child.
It was great. Happiest days of my life.

"Does this mean all kids should be punished?"

What are you talking about? Who is punishing children?

The school as with a lot other schools stopped Sports Day because the 'over weight' children
were not taking part and being subject to bullying.
My son would get a smack on the legs if I caught him bullying anyone and
at the school I went too the bullies were the 'over weight' kids.

Now in the School league teams winning by 6 golas have their score re-set to 2-0 or 3-0
so the losing team won't get hammered 10-0 or something like that.
What are breeding out there?
There are winners in life and there are losers.
The winners don't fear losing.

You cannot have publicity without names.
I'm not asking for address's and their route home from school.

My other point was in one thread you use this actual quote:

"I suggest that perhaps we talk about the games but not necessarily mention names. "
You can say black on board 4 etc etc and then things do not seem so personal."

Yet when 'no cruel bones Jack' uses the words 'crushing' and 'junior' in the same sentence
as well as naming names. Nothing is said. Infact it quite the reverse.

If I had done that....the PC white Knights would have come charging down the hill to trample me.

Hi John McK.

Sorry about mixing up your name earlier, I'm not hot on names today.
It's not about the Tiger and Tigress protecting cubs.
It's silly to think that I would knowingly hurt anyone.

It's about freedom of speech.
It's also about a game.
If parents and coaches are jamming win-win-win into these kids and
thinking showing a loss will hurt them, then I'm not blaming the kids.
I never blame the kids.

I'm coming around to your way of thinking. John, There is a pecking on here.

[JustinHorton]

The school as with a lot other schools stopped Sports Day because the 'over weight' children
were not taking part and being subject to bullying.

So which school did this?

[Krishna Shiatis]

"Does this mean all kids should be punished?"

What are you talking about? Who is punishing children?

See what I mean, you just do not remember do you?

You cannot have publicity without names.

Sigh. Sometimes I am unsure if you are deliberately misinterpreting or trying to provoke. I will only say this one more time. When talking about the games from the juniors, I have suggested that names not be mentioned. That sensitivity might be used.

If you are publicising a junior directly (and this falls under the case by case discussion) which is usually done with the agreement of the junior and their parents, then of course you mention his or her name. Please Geoff can you stop misinterpreting everything!

My other point was in one thread you use this actual quote:

"I suggest that perhaps we talk about the games but not necessarily mention names. "
You can say black on board 4 etc etc and then things do not seem so personal."

Yet when 'no cruel bones Jack' uses the words 'crushing' and 'junior' in the same sentence
as well as naming names. Nothing is said. Infact it quite the reverse.

If I had done that....the PC white Knights would have come charging down the hill to trample me.

I'm afraid I can not come and trample you, I do not know where you live........ yet.

I have already made my suggestion about not using names. What people choose to do thereafter is up to them. Jack is not the only person who mentioned names. Quite a few others have also done so.

Jack IMO is different though. I was hoping not to bring this up, but he has already mentioned on this forum that he suffers from Aspergers. I do understand a little about this and Jack himself has talked a little about what it means for him. I know Jack to be a kind soul and I do not believe that he meant any harm.

If there was harm or upset caused, then I hope that the parents in question will say something to Jack to explain.

From a personal point of view, I will not object to every single person who chooses to disagree with me and mention children's names. (I would be here all day and night!) The forum has its own moderator and it is up to them and each individual to make the right choices.

However, if I felt that someone was purposefully rounding on a child for their own personal gain or out of spite, then yes, I would say something.

[Peter D Williams]

I agree with Krishna with her points. But i was surprised that Jack made this comment it may be to do with his Aspergers? We do have to be very careful in what we say or write about junior chess players i believe you should check with the parents/child first before making comments We had things said written about Peter that we where very unhappy about and so was Peter often the facts where incorrect! yet people reading or hearing these comments would not know this.

Krishna said this which i fully agree with "However, if I felt that someone was purposefully rounding on a child for their own personal gain or out of spite, then yes, I would say something".

Some in the chess world do like picking on juniors and appear bitter to the achievements our juniors make with there chess.

We should all be giving our full support and encouragement to all our junior chess players something i know Krishna does though her work with the Kent juniors and she is often at chess congresses given encouragement to young chess players maybe we could all do more of this!

[Krishna Shiatis]

Thank you Peter! That is very kind.

I have noticed that you are also helping the juniors at the congresses. We still remember when you sat patiently for a couple of hours and taught our daughter between rounds!

I agree completely that people should check with parents first if they can - especially with one-sided reports/game reviews. It can come as a shock when you read stuff in print which you cannot respond to as a child (or even a parent) and it is upsetting.

I think that the ECF JD should take a look at this and issue some sensible guidelines.

[Paul Cooksey]

I'm hoping Carl thinks it is worth shifting everything from Geoff's post at 1:29 into a new thread, since I think we are discussing criticism of juniors more than publicity.

I nearly started the thread myself yesterday, since I am closer to Geoff's view than Krishna's. While I decide if I want to say anything substantive, one point of fact:

I noticed no hand wringing or flapping of protective wings when Jack posts. "Mmm, freshly crushed junior. My favourite." Complete with full names and the game.

I did say:

Mmm, freshly crushed junior. My favourite.

I am warning you now, that if you continue to beat juniors, particularly Maidenhead Juniors, I will tell on you to Krishna

A tough game for young Matthew. Still playing in a strong tournament does get you "personal tuition" from strong players. Jack showing that how many tempo you can afford to spend on positonal measures is a matter for delicate judgement, particulalry against someone with his attacking flair.

On the basis Jack was using a gaming meme he uses often, I too felt he intended no offence. But I did drop a very heavy hint there are those who'd object to the phrase, and discussed the game in a different context, in case Matthew's dad happen to see the comment.

I realise the use of humour to raise this subtly is rather undermined by me spelling it out, but still I don't think it is completely correct to talk about everyone turning a blind eye. I gave Jack a gentle nudge rather than a lecture, because he is well respected and I felt that adequate, and there is Carl in the background if anyone did want to report it.

[Andrew Zigmond]

Going back on topic, one question that's not been answered is whether there is any `role profile` for the Director of Marketing or the publicity officer; what are these people accountable for and what (within reason) does the ECF expect them to deliver? That way we would know what we are supposed to be criticising.

[Paul Cooksey]

Director of Marketing:
Develops and implements a strategic marketing plan aimed at increasing the commercial revenues of the ECF through a market-research-led approach to strengthen relationships with members, Game Fee payers, chess organisers and officials, local and national media, and the wider business community.
Develops a strong and clearly differentiated brand image for chess, and uses this as a means of promoting the image of the ECF and of generating favourable publicity for the Federation. Develops and enhances the image and perceived value of chess and of the people who organise and play the game.
Co-ordinates the search for sponsors and sets standards for the ECF’s relations with them. Is convener of the Board Sponsorship Committee.
Is responsible for the Certificate of Merit scheme.
Is a member of the Board Awards Committee.
Oversees the Yearbook, the Website and the Chess Moves.
Is responsible for the 'ECF Book of the Year’, and the 'ECF Player of the Year' Awards and makes proposals to the Board for all ECF endorsements. Ensures with the President and the secretary of the Board Awards Committee that these and other Awards are presented in the way that attracts the best publicity and reinforces the ECF’s relations with local chess players and organisers.

From Regulation 2, here: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=900

[John McKenna]

There's an article in the July Scientific American entitled - Why is Everyone on the Internet So Angry? It tries to explain why... Worth a quick read!?

I am now beginning to understand some reactions, which came as a bit of a surprise to me, on the forum at the start of the Championships. Maybe I overreacted to Lawrence's and Jack's posts (I will not apologise for that as people should be prepared to take the rough with the smooth) but feel partly responsible for what has ensued. However, not for what initiated it. In my opinion, certain IMs (like Lawrence and Jack, for example) are closer to the juniors - in the sense that they mentor them - than most when it comes to actually playing in a prestige event, like the current Britsh Championships, so also feel protective of, and buddies with, the young.
Such events are always seeking positive publicity but this an internet forum, which the ECF has already distanced itself from, so if the event and events that occur in it cannot be freely discussed here then I'd better just go down the pub.
Not being a parent myself could be one reason why I struggle to comprehend the current pedagogy in this society. The generation to which I (and possibly Geoff) belong had a different ethos when it came to education and the sensitivities of the young. Don't get me wrong, again, I think progress is being made, but as with any pendulum the swing goes from one extreme to another. (This is my final post in this thread.)

[Jonathan Bryant]

Did anybody actually believe that the Director of Marketing ever had any intention of putting his back into the role?



As for the comments about juniors: I agree with Paul. A separate thread would be useful. I'd like to contribute to it.

What I'll say here is that anything Jack wrote is less offensive than debating whether or not any or all of his behaviour is related to a medical condition. Defining people by their health status is neither big nor clever.

[Neill Cooper]

Now in the School league teams winning by 6 golas have their score re-set to 2-0 or 3-0
so the losing team won't get hammered 10-0 or something like that.

I'm not sure how often this actually happens.
However, I do think that one major reason for the death of secondary school chess leagues was the preponderance of 4-0 and 6-0 results. Neither side particulalry enjoyed it, and the weaker school would then withdraw from the league.