New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Lara Barnes
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New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Lara Barnes » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:38 pm

http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk/programme/

Please see page 10 of the above for the draft of the new qualifying regulations to be introduced for 2013.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:57 pm

Where does it say how much it is to enter?!

Lara Barnes
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Lara Barnes » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:01 pm

In the events pages, entry fees are at the foot of each event.
Also, you get a running total if you use the online entry form.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 am

Whilst a line by line comparison with the rules for 2012 is possible, a summary of changes from the rules for 2012 would be appreciated.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:13 am

A qucick glance, and the changes look like

IM / FM / WIM / WFM are now automatically qualified
FM / WFM get half price entry
FIDE rated events no longer count for one of the 6 biggest events places
FIDE rated events with more than 100 players get 2 places instead of 1

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Adam Raoof
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Adam Raoof » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:58 am

Sean Hewitt wrote:A qucick glance, and the changes look like

IM / FM / WIM / WFM are now automatically qualified
FM / WFM get half price entry
FIDE rated events no longer count for one of the 6 biggest events places
FIDE rated events with more than 100 players get 2 places instead of 1
Also

Ties
17 In the event of there being a tie for any of the above specified qualifying places, all the players in the tie shall qualify.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:40 am

Adam Raoof wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:A qucick glance, and the changes look like

IM / FM / WIM / WFM are now automatically qualified
FM / WFM get half price entry
FIDE rated events no longer count for one of the 6 biggest events places
FIDE rated events with more than 100 players get 2 places instead of 1
Also

Ties
17 In the event of there being a tie for any of the above specified qualifying places, all the players in the tie shall qualify.
Could be interesting if everyone in the tournament scores 50% :lol:

David Sedgwick
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:55 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Adam Raoof wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:A qucick glance, and the changes look like

IM / FM / WIM / WFM are now automatically qualified
FM / WFM get half price entry
FIDE rated events no longer count for one of the 6 biggest events places
FIDE rated events with more than 100 players get 2 places instead of 1
Also

Ties
17 In the event of there being a tie for any of the above specified qualifying places, all the players in the tie shall qualify.
Could be interesting if everyone in the tournament scores 50% :lol:
True, but any such tie could almost certainly not have been split under the old Regulations and would have resulted in a large number of players qualifying anyway. Moreover, the £2.50 or so that each will receive in prize money from the qualifying event won't go far towards the Championship entry fee of £200.

You've missed the most important change:

11 One nominee of ... the Director of International Chess

Unfortunately this change has come too late to be of any use to you personally.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:15 am

Automatic qualification to title holders might encourage the take up of FM and WFM titles, but aren't there any number of players either with the title or entitled to the title whose playing strength is now no better or lower than qualifiers through local tournaments? That's to say nothing of those who won the title as a prize in a FIDE event.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:25 am

I think there's an ambiguity in 14(b)
(b) British Isles events containing more than one FIDE standardplay-rated Open Swiss tournament depending on the following number of players:
(i) One place for each such tournament with 20 players or more; or
(ii) Two places for each such tournament with 100 players or more.
Normal practice is to have three or four sections, of which the top two are the FIDE rated ones. So is the count of 100 just the rated sections, or the whole event? Presumably 20 is over two sections and not the minimum for a single section. It seems like a very low minimum if applied to an entire event, but there have been qualifying places awarded to very small events.

Or am I misreading it, if I assume it covers events like e2e4 and it really just applies to "festivals" such as Hastings and the London Classic.

So if you have a "local" event which normally attracts around 80 players and is usually run as five Swisses of around 16 players each with the top two or three sections, FIDE rated, do these rules mean the top section has to be at least 20 players to preserve its qualifier status and that if entry in aggregate exceeds 100, it will get two places?

Matthew Turner
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:38 am

The new rules are really only confirming something which has been apparent for a number of years. The British Championships is effectively just (an expensive) open.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:I think there's an ambiguity in 14(b)
(b) British Isles events containing more than one FIDE standardplay-rated Open Swiss tournament depending on the following number of players:
(i) One place for each such tournament with 20 players or more; or
(ii) Two places for each such tournament with 100 players or more.
Normal practice is to have three or four sections, of which the top two are the FIDE rated ones. So is the count of 100 just the rated sections, or the whole event? Presumably 20 is over two sections and not the minimum for a single section. It seems like a very low minimum if applied to an entire event, but there have been qualifying places awarded to very small events.

Or am I misreading it, if I assume it covers events like e2e4 and it really just applies to "festivals" such as Hastings and the London Classic.

So if you have a "local" event which normally attracts around 80 players and is usually run as five Swisses of around 16 players each with the top two or three sections, FIDE rated, do these rules mean the top section has to be at least 20 players to preserve its qualifier status and that if entry in aggregate exceeds 100, it will get two places?
If I've read it right, I think it means that it's just the top section that counts. So if there are not 20 players in it, you don't get a BCQ place. Equally, if you have 60 in the Open, 50 in the U2100 and 40 in the U1800 you still only get one place.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:19 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Automatic qualification to title holders might encourage the take up of FM and WFM titles, but aren't there any number of players either with the title or entitled to the title whose playing strength is now no better or lower than qualifiers through local tournaments? That's to say nothing of those who won the title as a prize in a FIDE event.
Yes, the devaluation of the FM title does make this a rather incongruous time for such a measure. I think it must be inspired by the almost complete absence of players between 2220-2380 in many recent events (not just the British but also Hastings etc) which can cause terrible "yo-yos", basically because there is no middle of the tournament and it's more like a tournament of two different leagues. The better way to address this is surely to offer half-entry to anyone over 2300, regardless whether they have claimed the title (by contrast weak FMs may facilitate the norm chances of others, but that is all they do - whilst having a flock of reasonable 2300+ players also enhances the tournament more generally)

Sean Hewitt
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:23 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Automatic qualification to title holders might encourage the take up of FM and WFM titles, but aren't there any number of players either with the title or entitled to the title whose playing strength is now no better or lower than qualifiers through local tournaments? That's to say nothing of those who won the title as a prize in a FIDE event.
Yes, the devaluation of the FM title does make this a rather incongruous time for such a measure. I think it must be inspired by the almost complete absence of players between 2220-2380 in many recent events (not just the British but also Hastings etc) which can cause terrible "yo-yos", basically because there is no middle of the tournament and it's more like a tournament of two different leagues. The better way to address this is surely to offer half-entry to anyone over 2300, regardless whether they have claimed the title (by contrast weak FMs may facilitate the norm chances of others, but that is all they do - whilst having a flock of reasonable 2300+ players also enhances the tournament more generally)
To be fair, there is also the cost of your FM title off the entry fee in your first year, so anyone over 2300 who does not have the title can effectively get the ECF to pay for it.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: New Qualifying rules for The British 2013

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:27 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:I think there's an ambiguity in 14(b)
(b) British Isles events containing more than one FIDE standardplay-rated Open Swiss tournament depending on the following number of players:
(i) One place for each such tournament with 20 players or more; or
(ii) Two places for each such tournament with 100 players or more.
Normal practice is to have three or four sections, of which the top two are the FIDE rated ones. So is the count of 100 just the rated sections, or the whole event? Presumably 20 is over two sections and not the minimum for a single section. It seems like a very low minimum if applied to an entire event, but there have been qualifying places awarded to very small events.

Or am I misreading it, if I assume it covers events like e2e4 and it really just applies to "festivals" such as Hastings and the London Classic.

So if you have a "local" event which normally attracts around 80 players and is usually run as five Swisses of around 16 players each with the top two or three sections, FIDE rated, do these rules mean the top section has to be at least 20 players to preserve its qualifier status and that if entry in aggregate exceeds 100, it will get two places?
If I've read it right, I think it means that it's just the top section that counts. So if there are not 20 players in it, you don't get a BCQ place. Equally, if you have 60 in the Open, 50 in the U2100 and 40 in the U1800 you still only get one place.
Sean is correct, it is just the top section that counts.

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