Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Paul McKeown
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:38 pm

I propose that the EC Forum arranges an away day at Snodland's next rapidplay. Might bump into the Gibbon and a few other characters. :lol:

David Lettington
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by David Lettington » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:44 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:I propose that the EC Forum arranges an away day at Snodland's next rapidplay. Might bump into the Gibbon and a few other characters. :lol:
That would be excellent. If there were enough entries then I might be able to arrange a discount.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:51 pm

My assumption is that the Gibbon would run away, he prefers letting his keyboard drip poison from the safety of a no comments allowed blogshite. You, however, do at least have the courage (if that is the word) to come here to call one of the most sensible, articulate and thoughtful posters on this forum a moron. It is quite undeserved and should be withdrawn.

David Lettington
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by David Lettington » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:54 pm

Paul McKeown wrote: You, however, do at least have the courage (if that is the word) to come here to call one of the most sensible, articulate and thoughtful posters on this forum a moron. It is quite undeserved and should be withdrawn.
I didn't. You should re-read it, and the subsequent comments that I made.

Paul Cooksey

Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:55 pm

David Lettington wrote:
Paul Cooksey wrote:If David did not use the word moron to criticise me, I am not sure why he did.
To criticise anyone that would assume that one adult speaks on behalf of another, when the other adult is entirely capable of speaking for themselves.
I think the distinction between saying that an assumption that I said was likely to be made, could only be made by a moron, and simply calling me a moron is quite fine. Nonetheless I thank David for expressing his view more clearly.

I do not think it is an unreasonable thing to be concerned about in this case. Alex has on occasion conveyed views which he has attributed to Lara. Alex is hardly alone in this, for example David’s friend Mr Giddins occasionally represents the views of his friend Mr Keene. I received a postcard recently signed “love Mum and Dad” in handwriting that looked suspiciously like it is only my Mum’s. Depending on the closeness of the relationship, either professional or personal or both, a presumption that one person is authorised to speak for another seems to me entirely normal.

It is possible that I jumped to the wrong conclusion that David was being personally critical, when in fact he was expressing a point of view I did not believe anyone could hold. I may have been influenced by other posts he has made or the company he keeps. If so, he has my apologies.

I will take the liberty of explaining the reference to his grade. It was deliberate reminder that by one measure of intelligence I am clever. If he will forgive me saying so, I am clever by several other measures too. I am happy for people to say I am wrong if they provide an argument based on the issues. I am not happy for people to say I wrong because I am stupid. Again, the fact I saw David’s post immediately after taking some time to explain I felt a previous comment was addressed at me rather than my argument, may have led me to the wrong conclusion about David’s intent. If so, again he has my apologies.

I do not require any apology from David, even if he understands why his words may have led me to believe he was accusing me of holding a moronic opinion. For the record, my entirely manly underwear remains untwisted.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:01 pm

David Lettington wrote:To criticise anyone that would assume that one adult speaks on behalf of another, when the other adult is entirely capable of speaking for themselves.
David joins the list of people taking 24 hours "off" this forum so he can consider some of his recent posts :roll:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Alex McFarlane » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:16 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:Alex has on occasion conveyed views which he has attributed to Lara
And therein you answer your own point. If I don't attribute them to another then they are my views. Of course I cannot say how many others share those views.

To claim that everything I post has the agreement of anyone else beggars belief.

Should I demand that your mother should now come on this forum to prove that your father agreed with what was written on your postcard and if she did then demand that your father come on to verify this? That would be as far fetched as what you seem to want.

Bill Porter
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Bill Porter » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:30 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:
David Lettington wrote:To criticise anyone that would assume that one adult speaks on behalf of another, when the other adult is entirely capable of speaking for themselves.
David joins the list of people taking 24 hours "off" this forum so he can consider some of his recent posts :roll:
I don't see how saying that Paul Cooksey believes other people are morons has any implications related to Paul's intelligence.

Indeed, he has a real skill in provoking other people to get themselves banned from this forum.

Carl, banning Paul for a while should greatly reduce the risk of your moderating finger getting RSI.

Paul Cooksey

Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:32 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:Should I demand that your mother should now come on this forum to prove that your father agreed with what was written on your postcard and if she did then demand that your father come on to verify this?.
While I would not object to this, if Alex convinced me it would be beneficial to the success of English chess in some way, I fear it would require IT training beyond that which I have managed to provide to date.
Alex McFarlane wrote:To claim that everything I post has the agreement of anyone else beggars belief.
It certainly would. Let us find and correct this masked, straw, man without delay.

My argument was that it was unwise for Alex to express views critical of the ECF, if in doing so he created the impress the ECF might be split on something where this was not the case. It is a much, much narrow set of issues. Lara was recently asked to correct a statement that Torquay might not be the venue for the 2013 British. Alex almost immediately afterwards invited speculation as to whether Torquay was a good choice of venue. I think it would be possible for a reasonable person to link the two things.

To an extent, Alex has addressed my concern, in saying he is not representing Lara's view on this matter.

Carol Williams
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Carol Williams » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:36 pm

This is nearly more exciting than the Olympics

Alex and Lara are individuals in their own right and no one should assume that either one of them are making comments on behalf of the other.

I do think that Paul’s reference to David’s grade was wrong, I do feel that the implication was “you have a low grade therefore what do you know “ Well I do not have a grade, do not play competitive chess and am not a member of the ECF – so does this mean that I know nothing and should say nothing?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:38 pm

Going back to the original topic, you could have at least two possible structures.

One structure which may be favoured by some of the current board is that decisions about the venue and format of the annual Congress are vested in the Home Director in particular and the Board in general. The Congress manager is appointed in October specifically to run the following year's Congress. You might envisage appointing a local candidate. So whilst it might always be the same team, the person nominally in charge would change every year.

The other structure which is the historic one set by thirty or more years of precedent is that the Congress manager is an autonomous quasi Board position, responsible, subject to consultation with the Board and other stakeholders with running the Congresses in perpetuity. So at any one time, there are often three events to be managed simultaneously. One current, one next year and one or more prospective. As pointed out, up to 2005 this was a Board position and indirectly afterwards when the office was held by a Board member.

If I go back far enough, the BCF had just the one more or less full time paid employee, the General Secretary. In 1969, he was also termed the "Chief Controller" of the Rhyl Congress, so in modern terminology both the "Manager" and "Chief Arbiter". Stewart didn't take over until some years later, so I'm not sure who ran the Congresses in the 1970s when Anne Hopton and later Paul Buswell were the General Secs. Back then, there was usually a local committee to share the organisation.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:54 pm

Carol Williams wrote:Alex and Lara are individuals in their own right and no one should assume that either one of them are making comments on behalf of the other.
I support them both and have given Alex perhaps even a little more scope than I should, however there comes a point were we are in danger of repeating the same points over and over again and this forum becomes a soapbox
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Lara Barnes
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Lara Barnes » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:55 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:there was usually a local committee to share the organisation.
This was resurrected in part this year where the local chess association helped out a great deal with many aspects of the congress. An event has always been more successful, in my experience, when this happens.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:58 pm

On consideration David perhaps got a bad deal, however I could list Matthew as getting over direct to the point of being rude and Roger feeling so strongly about ECF membership that there is a danger of every thread becoming the same

It is in the nature of this sort of software that it is easy to drift and we end up going the way of the Atticus forum

Is that what people want?
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Carl Hibbard

Carol Williams
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Re: Role of the Manager of the British Championships

Post by Carol Williams » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:07 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Carol Williams wrote:Alex and Lara are individuals in their own right and no one should assume that either one of them are making comments on behalf of the other.
I support them both and have given Alex perhaps even a little more scope than I should, however there comes a point were we are in danger of repeating the same points over and over again and this forum becomes a soapbox
You often have a difficult call to make , I would not want to be a moderator - to remain impartial is very difficult but for what its worth I think you make a very fair point here

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