English Chess Forum

A club organises a one day rapid play competition restricted to club members and members of other clubs that are members of the local association; Most are bronze members with a small number of silver and gold. Under the current membership scheme are the games graded without further cost?
Perhaps someone who knows all about these matters can provide an answer. Thanks.

BTW most members have joined the ECF via the local association.

Ernie Lazenby wrote:A club organises a one day rapid play competition restricted to club members and members of other clubs that are members of the local association; Most are bronze members with a small number of silver and gold. Under the current membership scheme are the games graded without further cost?

If it's restricted to members of the local association, Bronze membership is sufficient for the games to be graded without further cost.

ETA: Hmmm, maybe not. It would be if the local association were organizing it; I'm not sure if the same holds if the club is organizing it.

Excellent, thank you Jack.

It's my understanding that:

If a local league or county organises a closed individual event, then bronze membership is required. E.g. The Birmingham League Individual stuff requires Bronze membership.

If a club organises a closed club event, then bronze membership is required. For example, the Warley Quinborne Club Championship.

If a club organises an open event, then silver membership is required. For example, the Witney Rapidplay which I attended last Saturday.

The recently held Witney Rapidplay offered discounts for Silver (but not Bronze) membership. It was organised by Witney CC (not the Oxfordshire Chess Association) but was open to anyone, whether Witney CC, another Oxfordshire club or from outside Oxfordshire.

So I would go with Alex's rather than Jack's (pre-ETA postscript) opinion.

Alex Holowczak wrote:It's my understanding that:

If a local league or county organises a closed individual event, then bronze membership is required. E.g. The Birmingham League Individual stuff requires Bronze membership.

If a club organises a closed club event, then bronze membership is required. For example, the Warley Quinborne Club Championship.

If a club organises an open event, then silver membership is required. For example, the Witney Rapidplay which I attended last Saturday.

But this isn't any of these, which is the problem: it's a closed individual event, but the organization players must be part of is not the same as the organization running the event. I'm not sure we've ever actually tackled this in our board discussions.

IM Jack Rudd wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote:It's my understanding that:

If a local league or county organises a closed individual event, then bronze membership is required. E.g. The Birmingham League Individual stuff requires Bronze membership.

If a club organises a closed club event, then bronze membership is required. For example, the Warley Quinborne Club Championship.

If a club organises an open event, then silver membership is required. For example, the Witney Rapidplay which I attended last Saturday.

But this isn't any of these, which is the problem: it's a closed individual event, but the organization players must be part of is not the same as the organization running the event. I'm not sure we've ever actually tackled this in our board discussions.

I would say that given it's "restricted to club members and members of other clubs that are members of the local association", it's an open event.

If you ignore "members of the local association", on the basis that being an ECF member through an MO is irrelevant under the rules as now written, then you're left with "restricted to club members and people from other clubs". I would say that's an open event being organised by a club, and hence it falls under the third of my categories.

When is an organisation a county and when is it a club? I think you are pushing this a bit too hard, Ernie.

Certainly when the Northumbria Junior CA organises a Junior Congress everybody taking part is expected to be or to become an ECF Junior Silver member.

I believe your Caffe Nero Quickplays are limited to members of Cleveland Clubs. What you are doing is trying to claim your county organisation is a club for the purposes of those tournaments. It's very much the thin end of a wedge - what's to prevent any congress organiser claiming that everybody playing in his congress is a member of a club invented for that purpose (free membership of course) and therefore need only be a bronze member of the ECF to get his games graded?

Paul Bielby wrote:It's very much the thin end of a wedge - what's to prevent any congress organiser claiming that everybody playing in his congress is a member of a club invented for that purpose (free membership of course) and therefore need only be a bronze member of the ECF to get his games graded?

Absolutely - if (say) e2e4 closes its events to members of the e2e4 chess club, and charges £0 to be a member of e2e4 Chess Club, and it can then have all the games played at their internal events for the price of bronze membership, rather than silver or gold.

I expect the Usual Suspect to weigh in with his Tablets of Stone any time soon.

Another good reason to have just one level of membership

......apart from FIDE rated events. Other than costs in relation to FIDE rated events, most ECF costs are fixed, so why should players who play more pay more? (lights blue touch paper and retires)

Warren Kingston wrote:Another good reason to have just one level of membership

This can be done at the next Finance Council meeting - just get your delegate to vote for all three memberships to have the same price.

Alex Holowczak wrote:

Paul Bielby wrote:It's very much the thin end of a wedge - what's to prevent any congress organiser claiming that everybody playing in his congress is a member of a club invented for that purpose (free membership of course) and therefore need only be a bronze member of the ECF to get his games graded?

Absolutely - if (say) e2e4 closes its events to members of the e2e4 chess club, and charges £0 to be a member of e2e4 Chess Club, and it can then have all the games played at their internal events for the price of bronze membership, rather than silver or gold.

That looks like tax avoidance to me, not tax evasion, and there's nothing wrong with that , except that it would only work for non-FIDE rated events.

I expect the Usual Suspect to weigh in with his Tablets of Stone any time soon.

I thought you just did...

Those in the know will have realised thet Bourne End 1 play Bourne End 2 as we speak!