Has a complaint ever been won against the ECF

[Peter D Williams]

Has a complaint ever been won against the ECF Council/Board and if it has what was the complaint about and what year was it?

[Roger de Coverly]

Has a complaint ever been won against the ECF Council/Board and if it has what was the complaint about and what year was it?

The formal Code of Conduct was only introduced last October and the only publicly known case is Burke v Hewitt. There must surely have been complaints about the ECF and the BCF before it. I would imagine these would have taken the form of motions at an AGM or EGM critical of the ECF/BCF , one or more of its policies, or decisions of individual directors.

[John Moore]

Do you mean has anyone ever sued the EFC - or BCF as was - and won or are we are going to have another interminable thread about the complaints procedure (punctuated by irrelevant stuff about what you and your family are eating).

[Carl Hibbard]

Has a complaint ever been won against the ECF Council/Board and if it has what was the complaint about and what year was it?

Not sure what the relevance is on this one?

[Roger de Coverly]

Not sure what the relevance is on this one?

The Williams family had a disagreement a few years ago with the then BCF President on the question of home schooling. This might have triggered a formal complaint had they had a straightforward mechanism to pursue their case.

[Carl Hibbard]

Not sure what the relevance is on this one?

The Williams family had a disagreement a few years ago with the then BCF President on the question of home schooling. This might have triggered a formal complaint had they had a straightforward mechanism to pursue their case.

Ok, the new code of conduct would not cover a previous issue surely?

[Alan Burke]

Although any information I might have in my possession is, of course, private, perhaps someone from the ECF might wish to confirm just how many complaints (NB - Plural) have so far been made against different Board members (NB - Plural) by various people (NB - Plural) together with the decisions (NB - Plural) made.

[Andrew Zigmond]

I don't see what can reasonably be achieved in making a complaint against an organisation that is almost entirely volunteer led. If you disagree with a particular policy or feel the ECF could do something differently then you should seek change by drawing attention to the issue (either on forums such as this or through chess publications such as Chess magazine) and engaging council members in order to gain momentum for change.

If you are unhappy with the actions of a certain elected, unpaid official then by all means slag them off as much as you like but ultimately if you think you could do a better job - put yourself forward for election.

[harrylamb]

I don't see what can reasonably be achieved in making a complaint against an organisation that is almost entirely volunteer led.

A good complaints system is one of the strongest tools for improving the performance of any organisation. People who complain and have their complaint satisfactory dealt with become the organisation's strongest supporters. The organisation benefits tremendously because it sees problem areas from a customer point of view. Problems it normally does not even recognise. Once you recognise a problem you can then improve the situation.

Conversely an organisation that does not listen to the complaints of its customer and pays lip service to handling them is well on the way to failure.

If you are unhappy with the actions of a certain elected, unpaid official then by all means slag them off as much as you like but ultimately if you think you could do a better job - put yourself forward for election.

People who raise formal complaints should not be seen as slagging off officials. They should be seen as giving an organisation information that will help its officials to do a better job

All the above is standard quality theory. I was quality assurance manage of a chemical plant for 15 years. Our complaints system was one of the drivers to our success.

[Andrew Zigmond]

I agree with a lot of what you say. I suppose there's a difference between constructive feedback and complaints by people who have nothing better to than complain. There are far too many of the latter in chess at the moment - or at least a very vocal minority.

The ECF (or BCF as was) has been slow in the past to change its own practices, to adapt to changes within the national chess culture and to address or acknowledge issues that others consider a priority. I'm going a little bit off topic here but now the new game fee structure has given the ECF a (reluctant) membership boost they could do a lot worse than conduct a survey of what members want to see and then introduce proposals as a result of this. If Council then obstruct change (as happened during the Regan era) the ECF board could notify the members of the failure and point out that somewhere a council member supposedly representing them blocked the proposals. That might set the cat among the pidgeons.

At the moment the ECF is volunteer driven and those volunteers are often ground down by constant sniping from people who wouldn't lift a finger to help themselves. That's why I don't think a `complaint culture` is useful.

[Roger de Coverly]

People who raise formal complaints should not be seen as slagging off officials. They should be seen as giving an organisation information that will help its officials to do a better job

I was trying to recall what the original Burke v Hewitt issue had been. I think it was that the ECF had been duplicitous in its statement of benefits and rights of the membership scheme. This lead to some robust language in defence of the ECF. Or was it about the strange ECF decision to start charging for inclusion of events which weren't to be graded on its main calendar?

[Kevin Thurlow]

I complained about some individuals who told lies about me, and I must have won that one as nobody every replied to the complaints!

A couple of years ago an arbiter tried to get a player banned, and the player tried to get the arbiter banned, but I don't know what (if anything) happened there.

OK - I'll stop there.

[Peter D Williams]

Not sure what the relevance is on this one?

The Williams family had a disagreement a few years ago with the then BCF President on the question of home schooling. This might have triggered a formal complaint had they had a straightforward mechanism to pursue their case.

Just for the record it was not to do with home schooling it was over a letter(plus phone call) the ex president of the BCF Gerry Walsh wrote to a head teacher of a school Peter was attending and at least one phone call that was made between the ex Director of Junior chess and the head of that school with out the parents knowing what was said about us or Peter.
A complaint was sent to Gerry Walsh recorded delivery by us and Peter no reply was ever made by Gerry or the BCF.

Looking at what Kevin has said in anther post the BCF/ECF appear to have a history of just ignoring complaints in the hope it all go away?
For any one reading I have helped at numerous chess events Coulsdon/ Richmond/ Sandhurst helping to set up clear away I remember helping some of the weaker juniors improve at chess. Carol has also helped at events she helped in the kitchen at Coulsdon for no reward so we don't want any one being foolish enough to think we never volunteer to muck in.Peter Granddad has helped at events to.

The ECF may be run by a lot of volunteers but this must not make them immune to complaints All modern workplaces/government departments have a complaints system that people can refer complaints to be investigated.
I have meet some very good volunteers of the ECF who do a lot of really good work with running chess events helping juniors

I was very interested to read Kevin post about some one taking legal action against the ECF and winning but the ECF got its own back by not picking the lad to play for England in the junior chess team yet his grade was the highest.
I hope your all coping with this snow and cold weather we are having I have stocked up on supplies so do not need to go out until Saturday when hopefully the weather will have improved. Hot chocolate drink goes down well try some add a little milk to it delicious

[Jonathan Rogers]

"Add" a little milk? what do you use initially, water?

[Andrew Zigmond]

I think most of us are agreed that the ECF has been a shambles for as long as anyone can remember - and invoking the spectre of Gerry Walsh shows us that at least we've made some progress in recent years.

In recent years how many examples have there been of competent people with proven track records winning election to the board only to resign over excessive criticism of their actions (let's not forget that Andrew Farthing stopped posting on this forum due to repeated attacks on his integrity) or blocking tactics and resistance to change from Council. Of course if the Board try to shut out the `noise` they are accused of being remote and not communicating.

What is the solution?

Most of us are volunteers - my own modest contributions take up quite a bit of my time - but I wouldn't put myself on a parity with the ECF board who do what amounts to a full time executive job as a hobby. That's my point.