National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:39 pm

The SCCU site has alerted that a new set of rules for the National Club 2013-14 have appeared on the ECF site at

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/competit ... -14-rules/

From the context, it appears to be looking to take place as a four round weekend team Swiss for four boards, although neither a date or place are mentioned. The move rate is 80 minutes with 10 second increments, so basically a semi rapid-play similar to evening leagues. If residential, that on paper might appeal to 4NCL squads, although they are specifically excluded from participation as themselves.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:32 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:The SCCU site has alerted that a new set of rules for the National Club 2013-14 have appeared on the ECF site at

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/competit ... -14-rules/

From the context, it appears to be looking to take place as a four round weekend team Swiss for four boards, although neither a date or place are mentioned. The move rate is 80 minutes with 10 second increments, so basically a semi rapid-play similar to evening leagues. If residential, that on paper might appeal to 4NCL squads, although they are specifically excluded from participation as themselves.
With respect this is old news. Alex Holowczak mentioned this reform as part of his election address and Guy Greenland has already contacted clubs who entered in recent years (including myself as Secretary of Harrogate).
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:45 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote: With respect this is old news. Alex Holowczak mentioned this reform as part of his election address and Guy Greenland has already contacted clubs who entered in recent years (including myself as Secretary of Harrogate).
When and where is it being held? For that matter where is the announcement on the ECF website?

There are many things in Election addresses, not all of which happen.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Andrew Zigmond wrote: With respect this is old news. Alex Holowczak mentioned this reform as part of his election address and Guy Greenland has already contacted clubs who entered in recent years (including myself as Secretary of Harrogate).
When and where is it being held? For that matter where is the announcement on the ECF website?

There are many things in Election addresses, not all of which happen.
We're in the process of setting up the website. A draft copy of the rules is online, but it's not a certainty that those are going to be the final rules. The idea was to hide the website as private for the time being, because it isn't ready to be public. Clearly, something went wrong in doing that.

This explains why there is no announcement about where and when on the ECF website. It will be made public when you all need to know.

David Sedgwick
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:52 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:We're in the process of setting up the website. A draft copy of the rules is online, but it's not a certainty that those are going to be the final rules. The idea was to hide the website as private for the time being, because it isn't ready to be public. Clearly, something went wrong in doing that.
If you want to know what, look under "Recently updated pages" in the left hand column on the front page on the ECF website.

The Rules, now hastily described as "draft", contain some gems. A couple of these are mentioned on the SCCU website at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/rag.htm.

Alex Holowczak wrote:This explains why there is no announcement about where and when on the ECF website. It will be made public when you all need to know.
Well, that's put us all in our places.

In case you haven't noticed, the season is already well advanced. It would be helpful to know the dates at least.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:48 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: Well, that's put us all in our places.

In case you haven't noticed, the season is already well advanced. It would be helpful to know the dates at least.
(replying with my club secretary hat on)

As I noted above Guy Greenland did communicate the change to all clubs who had entered in recent seasons. Presumably any clubs getting in touch about playing in the competition for the first time would have received the same communication.

This weekend last year Harrogate and Louth were playing their opening match in the competition with a possible further two still be arranged. I fail to see any need to panic.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:08 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote: Well, that's put us all in our places.

In case you haven't noticed, the season is already well advanced. It would be helpful to know the dates at least.
(replying with my club secretary hat on)

As I noted above Guy Greenland did communicate the change to all clubs who had entered in recent seasons. Presumably any clubs getting in touch about playing in the competition for the first time would have received the same communication.

This weekend last year Harrogate and Louth were playing their opening match in the competition with a possible further two still be arranged. I fail to see any need to panic.
I'm certainly not panicking.

However, there is a difference between arranging a single match on a mutually agreed date within a specified time period and arranging for a team to go away for all of a particular weekend.

That's one of the reasons why the dates of the 4NCL are always announced the best part of a year in advance.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:13 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote: As I noted above Guy Greenland did communicate the change to all clubs who had entered in recent seasons. Presumably any clubs getting in touch about playing in the competition for the first time would have received the same communication.
As Secretary of a club that entered last season, I beg to differ. The Match Captain for last year's team hasn't seen anything either. We knew the format was likely to change, very probably to a residential format. Vague hints on when and where would be useful.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:21 am

David Sedgwick wrote: The Rules, now hastily described as "draft", contain some gems. A couple of these are mentioned on the SCCU website at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/rag.htm.
The purpose of having a "Plate" competition in a Swiss rather escapes me. But if you do, why are only first round winners eligible? Should this not be first round losers to tie in with traditional Plate competitions?
Each section will have an associated Plate competition. The winning team of the Plate competition will be the team that is the highest-placed finisher in the final standings that did not lose their first match in each section.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:30 am

David Sedgwick wrote:The Rules, now hastily described as "draft", contain some gems. A couple of these are mentioned on the SCCU website at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/rag.htm.
Thank you for your support, and I only wish I could aspire to your levels of perfection. :roll:

Roger de Coverly
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:37 am

Alex Holowczak wrote: Thank you for your support, and I only wish I could aspire to your levels of perfection.
Under FIDE's new definition of Senior as being over 50, I'd guess that approaching a majority of UK active players might well qualify. Standards were high for the Fischer generation, not least being able to notice that a competition of four grading bands has four sections.

Paul Buswell
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Paul Buswell » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:16 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Andrew Zigmond wrote: As I noted above Guy Greenland did communicate the change to all clubs who had entered in recent seasons. Presumably any clubs getting in touch about playing in the competition for the first time would have received the same communication.
As Secretary of a club that entered last season, I beg to differ. The Match Captain for last year's team hasn't seen anything either. We knew the format was likely to change, very probably to a residential format. Vague hints on when and where would be useful.
Nor has the Hastings & St Leonards Club, which used to enter up to a year or so ago; although it is unfortunate that the two match captains last involved have both died in the last couple of years. An idea of the when and where would indeed be useful.

PB

Alex Holowczak
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Andrew Zigmond wrote: As I noted above Guy Greenland did communicate the change to all clubs who had entered in recent seasons. Presumably any clubs getting in touch about playing in the competition for the first time would have received the same communication.
As Secretary of a club that entered last season, I beg to differ. The Match Captain for last year's team hasn't seen anything either. We knew the format was likely to change, very probably to a residential format. Vague hints on when and where would be useful.
Paul Buswell wrote:Nor has the Hastings & St Leonards Club, which used to enter up to a year or so ago; although it is unfortunate that the two match captains last involved have both died in the last couple of years. An idea of the when and where would indeed be useful.
The Manager has contacted all of last year's section controllers, and asked for the contact details of the teams that entered. The communication Andrew described then happened with all of those people. I've no idea why your clubs weren't on that list.

Some enquiries went to the Office, and they have been forwarded to Guy and myself, and we have communicated with them the same message. So if you asked, the information was available to you.

I'm intending to post an announcement either at the end of this week, or at the start of next week, but I'm currently dealing with another issue that I didn't expect to deal with this week which has delayed my progress.
Roger de Coverly wrote:Standards were high for the Fischer generation, not least being able to notice that a competition of four grading bands has four sections.
We were going to have five sections, but it was a reasonably recent decision to go with four. So the fifth was removed, but the word "five" was not. It is an easy mistake to make.

I guess mistakes are a function of actually trying to do something, rather than commenting on an Internet Forum simply to complain about things all day, every day, for the last several years.

David Sedgwick
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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:10 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:I guess mistakes are a function of actually trying to do something, ...
That's a fair point. My post about "gems" was over the top and I apologise.

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Re: National Club Chamionship - what is the point?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:06 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I guess mistakes are a function of actually trying to do something, ...
That's a fair point. My post about "gems" was over the top and I apologise.
Accepted. I'll get back to making the necessary amendments to them.

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