The Yorkshire problem

[David Robertson]

For crying out loud, don't start him off

[Andrew Wainwright]

Good news. Come on Bradford Knights, let's smash up Bradford Div 1!!!!!

[Andrew Zigmond]

I raised the issue at the Harrogate League AGM (which needs to be seen in the context that it was four people sat round a table in the pub, not any sort of formal meeting). Nothing is happening this year - I didn't expect it to - however I made the point that if the YCA grading list ceased to exist the league would have to make the hard choice between going ungraded and meeting the ECF fees. I feel I have to quote the league controller here (not quite verbatim).

`If the YCA can do it for free why can't the ECF? They must have all this funding they get from somewhere, why should we pay?`

Now you don't have to tell ME what's wrong with that and I did draw attention to the loss of the government grant and the activities the ECF funds (`well international chess hardly affects us`) at which point the meeting moved on. To me this shows the image the ECF needs to overcome, too many people have this idea of chess executives in the South rolling in wads of cash.

In more positive news Mick Stokes, Harrogate number one player for as long as anybody can remember, said he was considering playing in the Senior event at Abersytwyth. Given that Mick normally limits his chess to terrorising other top boards in the Yorkshire League second division it suggests that the ECF is reaching out to a new audience - although he said it was just an idea at this stage.

[David Pardoe]

Raising revenue has always been a crucial issue for the ECF. And many people question this, and how the money is spent/should be spent.
Many also question the best ways of raising these funds, and many suggestions have been forthcoming on these forums.
The drive for Charity status...and `Company status= Limited` have been key issues in recent years...as has the Membership scheme. Are these providing the ECF with the right framework...? Can we use the time more constructively, reforming some of these, and/or pursuing other initiatives. Its a long term game, with no quick fixes.
The mish mash of bodies, all with differing agendas, that make up the loosely associated body that is the ECF, is a difficult combination to deal with, not least, because of vested interests and loads of historical baggage.
Thus, taking things forward in any kind of constructive and timely manner at the ECF is inherently fraught with problems.
Then, there is the question of manpower/volunteers, to drive things forward.
I am firmly of the view that the government should make grants to non profit making bodies like the ECF, on two counts..
1..Social & cultural...these activities are a bedrock of our culture and society, and should be supported and encouraged.
A drive to stop VAT being charged on such organisations would be really good. I`d really like to see some high profile body refuse to pay these charges, and take the Gov on. It might embarrass them into recognising the valuable contribution that they make to our society.
Secondly... Educational...a grant for junior chess from the Gov again would be an excellent initiative, to encourage our youngsters in this country to participate in such cultural pursuits. A £20k grant, to be put towards ensuring a large number of the 80,000 participants in the junior Mega Finals schools events recieve gradings (at least provisional, by local graders), could put thousands of our youngsters on the chess map. I`m referring here to those juniors who are not either Bronze, Silver or Gold Members currently.
An annual grant from the Robinson fund might also be well recieved...
Many other initiatives deserve action.....

[Roger de Coverly]

A £20k grant, to be put towards ensuring a large number of the 80,000 participants in the junior Mega Finals schools events recieve gradings (at least provisional, by local graders), could put thousands of our youngsters on the chess map.

At a guess, if there was the will and desire to do it, grading of Mega Final events would only require the recruitment of enough volunteer graders and others to collate results and publish them in ranking form. If the ECF wanted £20,000 for the service, that would be the ECF raising funds to pay for the office in Battle and the International teams.

The bigger problem is the Department of Culture, Media and Sport doesn't want to see taxpayer money spent on chess.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I am firmly of the view that the government should make grants to non profit making bodies like the ECF, on two counts.."

But they won't. There are many more important ways to spend money. At present our troops do not have sufficient armour or ammuniton. Teachers are being made redundant. Hospitals are expected to cut costs. Why waste money on a game? We should be grateful they funded it as long as they did.

"A drive to stop VAT being charged on such organisations would be really good. I`d really like to see some high profile body refuse to pay these charges, and take the Gov on. It might embarrass them into recognising the valuable contribution that they make to our society."

Well, huge companies like Vodaphone, Starbucks and Google are reputed not to pay enough tax, and get away with it. But individuals and small companies are pursued relentlessly of course.

Successive governments do not seem embarrassed by anything!

[David Pardoe]

So, organisations like this end up having to spend huge amounts of effort to contort themselves into looking like Charities, just so they can achieve these exemptions, and aviod paying these taxes.
Total futilty, or what. I really dont see why our membership fees should end up in the Government coffers.
Welcome to rip off britain..?
As for having more important things to do with our money...maybe that can always be said. But those bankers who put us in the current mess should not be incentivised for these failings, with grotesque banker bonuses. Bring back 90% tax rates for these cowboys..and foir those over paid football players...
Roger..
As for the National teams..yes, this might free up some cash for International chess, which might indeed lead to greater successes, and a boost for British chess.
And you talk of Graders giving up there time for free...maybe some extra money trickling in there direction would not go amiss.
But, talking of International chess..I think there is much scope for reforms in the events, perhaps allowing greater team representation in some team events. I`d certainly like to see a British Championships series reinstated, with some of our lesser lights given a chance at International level.

[Andrew Zigmond]

I'll stop short of reporting it but Carl, if you're reading this, please could anything from David Pardoe's 11.03 post be split off into a seperate thread as it has nothing to do with the Yorkshire Problem?

[Carl Hibbard]

I'll stop short of reporting it but Carl, if you're reading this, please could anything from David Pardoe's 11.03 post be split off into a seperate thread as it has nothing to do with the Yorkshire Problem?

Please the San Mig needs replacing

[David Pardoe]

Andrew... I quote...
You posted these comments immediately prior to mine...
Quote...
I feel I have to quote the league controller here (not quite verbatim).

`If the YCA can do it for free why can't the ECF? They must have all this funding they get from somewhere, why should we pay?`


Now you don't have to tell ME what's wrong with that and I did draw attention to the loss of the government grant and the activities the ECF funds (`well international chess hardly affects us`) at which point the meeting moved on. To me this shows the image the ECF needs to overcome, too many people have this idea of chess executives in the South rolling in wads of cash.


This eludes to the ECF and how Yorkshire percieve it, in some quarters.
Is there a Yorkshire problem...or is it a more general problem? Or is it an ECF problem?
Understanding the wider situation might help with some perceptions on all this.

[MartinCarpenter]

The answer to why the YCA can supply its grading free is that Jon Griffith likes doing it enough to do it, mantain his website etc for nothing. Fairly clearly not a terribly scalable/sustainable model

[Andrew Zigmond]

David - I missed the thrust of your post slightly; I thought it tied into the conversation started by Peter Farr and Roger on the previous page. This thread has already drifted slightly from its original intention which was to highlight the state of play within Yorkshire prior to the YCA AGM in June.

I made the point at the meeting last night that if we ever wanted to grow the league a lot of players would not want to play unless their games were ECF graded. Generally speaking I agree with a lot of what you're saying but the ECF has to move one step at a time and prove itself as a competent national authority first - big progress has been made towards that this season.