Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

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David Robertson
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Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by David Robertson » Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:21 pm

I have just published to the Atticus forum (New ECF sub-forum) an extensive exchange between Nigel Short, Stewart Reuben, Gerry Walsh & David Anderton. The exchange begins with issues debated here about eligibility for selection, and ends with issues debated here also about the fitness for office of Gerry Walsh. It's a lively read :D

Family & friends of Gerry Walsh may not wish to follow the link below. But everyone else concerned with English chess should take a moment or two to plough through the correspondence.

http://www.atticuschess.org.uk/forum/ph ... .php?t=452

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by James Coleman » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:02 am

Interesting read. I love the phrase "serial junket-junkie" that's classic Short at his best ...

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Charles W. Wood » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:45 am

I find this whole thing a bit odd. Does Shirov (or however his name is spelt) play for his home country of Latvia? Has Nigel Short represented any other country than England? Didn't former International Director Rupert Jones play for the PNG in the disputed tournament?

As a low level grunt in such affairs I feel the whole system is just a little odd. I think that you should only play for the country you were born in. What amazes me is does Gerry select people to represent England or is that down to others. I would have thought the whole selection for England would be down to the International Director and his/her team. But what would I know as I'd never play at such levels.
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:53 am

Interesting, and typically trenchant views from Short.

Some observations:
a) Nigel Short does rather wrap himself in red, white and blue, doesn't he? I recall, for instance, his recent drivel on Chessbase about Scotland, Wales, (Norn) Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey, etc.
b) Gerry Walsh may or may not be a "useless tub of lard", but he should still be left in his dignity. He has done many good things for chess in England, perhaps his light now shines less brightly than it once did- that is for the ECF AGM (or GW himself) to decide. I recall, for instance, that GW was the prime mover in the Teeside 1972 tournament, which was certainly thr strongest in England since the Staunton Memorial 1951 or perhaps even since Nottingham 1936.
c) Stewart Reuben's responses to NS seem to be temperate, well thought out and reasonable. They certainly indicate that the problem which exists is not easily legislated against and cannot be dealt with as simplistically as NS would like to paint it.
d) SR seems to make a good case that part of the problem lies with FIDE itself, in not making proper rules regarding "FIDE nationality".
d) Short and Adams might have a better moral case with regard to the British, if they actually bothered to turn out rather more regularly than they do.
e) Why anyone would want to prevent Joe Gallagher, Tony Kosten, Gary Lane or Bogdan Lalic from turning out in the British Ch. completely escapes me. Why not Glenn Flear for that matter either? Do they not add quality to an otherwise dreary, weak, provincial Swiss tournament? Its not as if they aren't Brits (even Bogdan...)
f) I remember when Indian's were winning the British with regularity a few years back, at the turn of the century. Then the cry was that the poor hard-working British GM was having the bread stolen from his mouth. When Commonwealth players were consequently banned, I didn't see, however, a great upswing in the number of English GM's turning out. Then Rowson had the temerity to win the British back to back and it was whining about sweaty socks and why wasn't there an English championship. Then Aagard... And what has the British become anyway? Some sort of risible, weak, kindergarten (if I may use such a disagreeably Teutonic word) affair. - what is the point of the Major Open now at all?
g) SR rightly points out that the ECF does try hard to make sensible selections based on nationality, residence and FIDE affiliation and furthermore points out that Ingrid Lauterbach's personal situation is best known to her and is, for the rest, uninformed (and perhaps erroneous) speculation.

I would throw the ball into NS's court to define fair rules for ECF team selection and for acceptance into the British Ch. that don't unfairly treat some special cases or indeed don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

No doubt I'll get pilloried for my unpatriotic lack of ranting. DGAF.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:12 am

Which countries are there that will accept registration from anyone who'll cough up a fee? I'd like to find one. :)

(Although I probably wouldn't try to change nationality unless I felt I had some sort of valid claim to it; I've tried to change nationality to Trinidad & Tobago - my mother's country of origin - but the TTCA didn't want me to register with them. Maybe I'll try again sometime.)

The Major Open... hmm, this is a tricky one. It's an eleven-round tournament at which there is no serious opportunity to get a norm, barring exceptional and rather unlikely circumstances. The consequence of this is that the ambitious 2200-2350 players will not usually play in it; if they don't qualify for the Championship itself, they will tend to look elsewhere for their international tournaments.

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:05 am

Y'know, I reckon there must be better people than Gerry Walsh to do the job - but he is, at least, not as monumentally and aggressively unpleasant as Nigel Short. He really needs to develop some sort of respect for his fellow human beings.

Re: the British, I wrote something about it earlier this year, which may or may not be worthy of your attention, but here it is anyway.
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:28 am

Re: the British, I wrote something about it earlier this year, which may or may not be worthy of your attention, but here it is anyway.
I agree - I think that the British should revert to being a round-robin. It's 60 years of a Swiss now, time for a change. Worth another thread?

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:57 am

Can David Beckham Captain the USA?

The German lady has to go. I dont even like Short but I like his bluntness.
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:05 pm

And what has the British become anyway? Some sort of risible, weak, kindergarten (if I may use such a disagreeably Teutonic word) affair.
As ENG now only ranks 19th in the world - see http://ratings.fide.com/topfed.phtml , the national championship isn't going to seem as strong as it was when we were in the top 6. On the thread http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=391, we established that 16 of the top 20 ENG players were either playing in the British at Liverpool or in an event elsewhere The British clashed with the Staunton (Adams,Short,Wells,Speelman), the World Junior (Howell) and a tournament in Norway(Turner). 2 of the "missing" are known to work in the city (Parker,McShane), leaving just 2 (King/Emms) unaccounted for.
The Major Open... hmm, this is a tricky one. It's an eleven-round tournament at which there is no serious opportunity to get a norm, barring exceptional and rather unlikely circumstances.
In the same year as the Commonwealth players were banned from the British proper, there was a 2350 maximum placed on the Major Open to make absolutely sure they wouldn't attend. The Major Open these days seems like an under 20 tournament with a few guest adults.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben Purton
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:08 pm

If I ever qualified for British(considering I dont play weekend tournaments unlikely) Id Play in it, but the Major Open has nothing on Czech Open which a group of us(around 10) played last year. By "nothing" I mean the depth of players who are in the most part FIDE rated.

Ben
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:38 pm

[quote]The German lady has to go.[/quote]

Ben, in fairness, you're personally involved with a young, female, English chess-player; from some of your postings on the subject in the past, it's abundantly clear that you are not happy about Mrs/Frau Lauterbach...! Perhaps, you should ask her how whether or not she has an emotional attachment to England, she was married (or at least involved with - I don't know the exact arrangements) with John Nunn. That gives her some history. For me, that is the real point - do you feel proud playing for your (or one of your!) country(ies)... Or is it merely a flag of convenience?

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:51 pm

[quote]If I ever qualified for British(considering I dont play weekend tournaments unlikely) Id Play in it, but the Major Open has nothing on Czech Open which a group of us(around 10) played last year. By "nothing" I mean the depth of players who are in the most part FIDE rated.[/quote

The thing is, a relatively crap player like me (ECF 172), might well qualify too, if I was to play week-enders. As Groucho Marx didn't say, I wouldn't want to play in a tournament that would want me... Actually, I would play, for me it would be an honour. But in the greater scheme of things. I've also played tournaments in Germany, Holland, France, that make the British Ch. seem a relatively minor affair, tournaments with dozens of grandmasters, perhaps a hundred or more titled players, cut off at 2000.

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Nigel Short » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:43 pm

I will confine myself to a few observations in reply to Paul McKeown:

a) "Nigel Short does rather wrap himself in red, white and blue, doesn't he? I recall, for instance, his recent drivel on Chessbase about Scotland, Wales, (Norn) Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey, etc."
I expressed the desire to play for the country of which I am (and presumably you are) a citizen. Is there something inherently unreasonable about this? Why, exactly, should this be "drivel"?
b) "Gerry Walsh may or may not be a "useless tub of lard", but he should still be left in his dignity. He has done many good things for chess in England, perhaps his light now shines less brightly than it once did- that is for the ECF AGM (or GW himself) to decide. I recall, for instance, that GW was the prime mover in the Teeside 1972 tournament, which was certainly thr strongest in England since the Staunton Memorial 1951 or perhaps even since Nottingham 1936."
I give full credit to Gerry Walsh for his pivotal role in the 1972 Teeside tournament. Perhaps it is not insignificant, however, that this event took place as many as 36 years ago. As can be seen from the correspondence in the Atticus forum, The President of the ECF only responded to an e-mail, addressed directly to him from the most senior member of the England chess team, and of legitimate interest to all English chess players, after a delay of several days and being prompted to do so by Stewart Reuben. His reply - in essence, "none of my business" is grossly irresponsible , but unfortunately very typical.
c)"Stewart Reuben's responses to NS seem to be temperate, well thought out and reasonable. They certainly indicate that the problem which exists is not easily legislated against and cannot be dealt with as simplistically as NS would like to paint it."
The implication is, of course, that the words of NS are intemperate, ill thought out and unreasonable. I am very well aware that FIDE regulations cannot be changed at the drop of a hat. However the ECF delegate, who holds a position analogous to that of an MP, can put forward legislation. David Anderton did so very effectively when he was our representative. There is no indication that Gerry Walsh has ever even thought about any of the issues that affect international chess, let alone done anything about them (please name a single proposal of his) during his long tenure as ECF Delegate. For example, how did he vote on the proposed changes to the FIDE Grand Prix from which our leading player, Michael Adams, has now withdrawn, in disgust? How did Gerry Walsh vote on the changes to the time control which has rendered the civilised tempo of the EU Championship in Liverpool and the Gibraltar tournaments illegal? Did he make a speech in defence of our practices? Do we have a clue? Well, we don't know, because Gerry Walsh doesn't answer to anyone.
Furthermore, the instransigence or corruptness of FIDE is no excuse. The ECF is quite capable of introducing its own regulations for eligilibility for the English team.
d) "Short and Adams might have a better moral case with regard to the British, if they actually bothered to turn out rather more regularly than they do."
Just like Luke McShane and Matthew Sadler, who have made their decisions to work elsewhere, for Goldman Sachs and Hewlitt Packard respectively, primarily on economic grounds, Michael Adams and myself have done the same with the British Championship. We judge (rightly or wrongly) that it is usually not worth our while, which is why I have only appeared at event once in the last 20 years. I would suggest that the repeated failure to attract England's leading players to the national championship is a damning indictment of the state of British chess. Perhaps you would rather have me abandon chess become a lawyer, like my brother? I will leave others to judge whether that would be in the interests of the game in this country.
...
g) "SR rightly points out that the ECF does try hard to make sensible selections based on nationality, residence and FIDE affiliation and furthermore points out that Ingrid Lauterbach's personal situation is best known to her and is, for the rest, uninformed (and perhaps erroneous) speculation." I believe that I already mentioned that Ingrid lauterbach informed me herself that she has not lived in the UK for the last 7 years. There was no speculation involved.
Last edited by Nigel Short on Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:51 pm

Paul

I think everyone knows I date a female chess player whos of 2100 strength. People have called me racist for my posts on this forum. I dont think they actually have understood what Im saying, which is understandable considering my dyslexic rants can be hard to even re-read for myself.

I think the main blame is FIDE/ECF selectors. I dont have a problem with any of the 10 players selected in Dresden personally.

I think

Blood
Birth
Residency

I think thats the order of importance on national selection.

I am not as English as some people. My Great Grandfather and Grandmother were born in Eastern Europe. As well as having a Grandmother who migrated from Derry to Nurse in France for the war. Alot of people I am related to arent English, but I still call them family, they are Israeli and American-Irish and I am English.


I think loyalty is important, if Ingrid had lived in England after seperating with Nunn then fine , she clearly prefers this country and wants to remain loyal to it.

But No she jogs on back to Germany, clearly showing shes more loyal to them.

I think the people who have called me a racist are wrong, do I show racial preference , yes I guess I do. I think on a personal note I would have less of a problem with an Ausstrailian in the exact same position.

I think theres a difference between racism and wanting someone to represent your country.

The rules in Chess are a joke, you can just chop and change countries which is pathetic, its not the players faults, its the establishment.

Someone said to me "Sarah(my girlfriend) use to play for Ireland".......as to cite that I am a hypocrite.

At Junior level its different in EVERY sport. Michael Owen played for Wales and Ryan Giggs for England. Sarah made the decision to be loyal to England at adult level.

In terms of Blood shes 1/2 Irish and 1/2 English down the line. I do think that blood is the first thing you look at , apparantly that makes me wrong and a racist then fine. I do think once you decide on a country you should stick to it.

Nigel might be controversial, but sometimes you need people to speak up about issues which many keep hidden. I support his idea that it gives a bad impression to young women


Ben


PS Paul its nothing to do with my partners interests , she got selected this year but got ultimatiumed by her university and therefore couldnt go.
Last edited by Ben Purton on Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nigel Short wishes Gerry Walsh 'Merry Xmas & Begone!'

Post by Ben Purton » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:20 pm

For the record, can I make it clear when I stated a few weeks ago about parents of the English women, I did not want to cause offence to the players in the team. I was using it to support the lack of actual home grown talent in respects of coming through the English youth system, I think perhaps I should choose my words more carefully in terms of generalising the whole side's roots . One of the players who was in the team expressed her disagreement at this post and I would like to say sorry to her as I respect her family more than most in Chess. I do understand that in respect to other players such as Ingrid( or whoever) that its not HER fault , but the ECF's/FIDE's rules for selection

Ben
I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill Hicks
I would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
Hating the Yankees since 2002. Hating the Jets since 2001.

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