Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:38 pm

John Upham wrote:What would you like to read here that would satisfy your curiosity?

Some specifics would be most welcome.
Why not have a look upthread? You should get at least two goes at it.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:40 pm

Matthew Turner wrote: Frankly, that will be a bloody difficult ask, but how much would it be worth to Citigroup or Goldman Sachs to be the exclusive sponsor of English Chess (I.e title sponsor of the British, lead sponsor of the England team and proud supporters of English junior chess?)
But does that force the 4NCL into becoming the Goldman Sachs 4NCL, the London Chess Classic and Hastings International similarly? It isn't "the whole of English chess" if it doesn't. Going back in time, all the activities you mention have been sponsored or at least given patronage and this whilst virtually unknown in say 1970, by 1980 was commonplace. I'd agree it was always done on a patchwork basis, but that might in part be down to affordability to the potential sponsor.

Knowledge of the inner details of British chess isn't particularly widespread as Jack's admission elsewhere on another thread about the National Schools suggests. Could it be that those who briefed AP about the English chess scene weren't actually aware that the ECF doesn't run the 4NCL or any other league outside the Counties national stages and isn't directly responsible for Congresses outside the British Championship Congress and others with national titles.

(edit) It's actually a strategic point as to whether the ECF should attempt to gain patronage or sponsorship for the limited events it controls on an individual basis or whether to put them together as an all or nothing package. It might be feasible that the whole package was worth more than the parts summed individually, but it potentially leaves you with nothing when the partner pulls out. No "proud sponsor of world chess" has materialised in the eighteen months of looking. (/edit)
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Steve Rooney
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Steve Rooney » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:49 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote: Well there is, stick with Roger Edwards as President and elect Andrew Moore as CEO.
Having read this and other threads, as well as the election addresses, I agree entirely. And while I'm at it I would add that I think Lawrence Cooper will make an excellent Junior Director.

The ECF is in safe hands and has no need of new brooms to sweep it all away.
Angus French wrote:One thing that concerns me is capacity for change (whatever that change may be). The ECF isn't a business. It's a volunteer organisation with limited capacity. I've long thought the ECF tries to do too much and should focus more on doing less better.
Precisely. UK chess is not there to be part of anyone's grand plan for world domination.

Andrew Paulson -- ECF Election Statement -- 16/9/2013: "UK chess is the perfect laboratory in which to fine-tune old institutions and test new ideas: our successes will show how organised chess everywhere should innovate."

We now know, because Andrew Paulson has spelt it out in somewhat plainer English than his election address, that this means appropriating the UK Chess brand as a commercial entity, when there is no evidence that this is either desirable from the point of view of amateur players, or achievable given that ECF controls very little itself.

If someone wants to develop a commercial model for new or existing chess events then go ahead and do it, or put a proposition to a well established entity like 4NCL, but don't try to use the ECF as something to experiment on.

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:53 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:But does that force the 4NCL into becoming the Goldman Sachs 4NCL, the London Chess Classic and Hastings International similarly? It isn't "the whole of English chess" if it doesn't.
Which is a problem because these tournamentss are quite likely to say that no thanks, they'd quite like to sell their own rights, they'll do better out of it.

Now maybe that problem's been thought of, and maybe it's resolvable to everybody's satisfaction. Or maybe it hasn't, because the proposal's still at the back-of-an-envelope stage.

It'd be good to know which.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:01 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:But does that force the 4NCL into becoming the Goldman Sachs 4NCL, the London Chess Classic and Hastings International similarly? It isn't "the whole of English chess" if it doesn't.
Which is a problem because these tournamentss are quite likely to say that no thanks, they'd quite like to sell their own rights, they'll do better out of it.

Now maybe that problem's been thought of, and maybe it's resolvable to everybody's satisfaction. Or maybe it hasn't, because the proposal's still at the back-of-an-envelope stage.

It'd be good to know which.
Indeed, the 4NCL is fiercely proud of its independence, and effortlessly resisted attempts to be the former BCF to either take it over or kill it off in the 1990s. It only enforces ECF membership because the ECF forces it to do so by threatening otherwise not to submit the games for rating. I see no prospect whatever of a peaceful handover to a larger corporate entity.

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Ben Purton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Ben Purton » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:02 pm

Is there seriously a captain in the 4NCL who would not welcome a large sponsor of the league if it meant better conditions/prizes in general?
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Ben Purton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Ben Purton » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:05 pm

However, I recently pitched to 4 of the Fortune 250 trying to get sponsors for my chess team and was willing to give them all name rights except for the "Sharks" at the end. Perhaps that last bit was the reason they did not bite(pun).

Generally though they did not feel the exposure offered by such a venture was solid. The main interest comes from using chess players in corproate material/reports.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:13 pm

Ben Purton wrote:Is there seriously a captain in the 4NCL who would not welcome a large sponsor of the league if it meant better conditions/prizes in general?
I don't think that's on offer. What is on offer is that the 4NCL signs away any rights to do this in its own name in exchange for a share in a pot of gold which the ECF might be prepared to distribute to it. Even then, there are no guarantees that anyone would buy "English chess".

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:35 pm

It may be that the 4NCL would be an attractive part of the English chess package, if Andrew Paulson thought that was the case then I would assume that once elected President he would seek a meeting with the 4NCL board. They'd discuss some ideas and the 4NCL would decide whether they wished to become part of the package for which Andrew was seeking a sponsor. Again, nothing unusual about that as an approach.

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:39 pm

But voters might think "look, the 4NCL will say no to being taken over. We feel sure of that already, even if AP doesn't - which brings us back to his knowing very little about domestic chess. So what will he actually deliver?"

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:51 pm

Jonathan,
I think I disagree with you there. If someone came forward with a proposal to give the 4NCL £20,000 let's say to call itself the Barclaycard 4NCL. I don't see any reason not to accept. Of course it is is not always as simple as that, what if the offer came from Rothmans, people might be unhappy about endorsing a cigarette company. Those issues have to be worked through, but surely the 4NCL should be open to the idea of a commercial sponsor.

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:58 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:but surely the 4NCL should be open to the idea of a commercial sponsor.
Of course it should. What we have read into the Paulson proposal is that this right would be given to or taken away by the ECF. So it becomes English Chess sponsored by Barclaycard and the 4NCL would have to get in the queue for hand outs. Presumably that's the way it works in Lawn Tennis and other sports or pastimes with top-down financial support.

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John Upham » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Andrew,

Welcome to the Forum/Arena!

The ECF does not currently have a Press Officer or a Director of Communications type role.

It would also appear not to have meaningful sanctions for those proven to have cheated in OTB chess sanctioned by itself.

Do you feel these omissions (IMHO) deserve to be addressed?

J.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:but surely the 4NCL should be open to the idea of a commercial sponsor.
Of course it should. What we have read into the Paulson proposal is that this right would be given to or taken away by the ECF. So it becomes English Chess sponsored by Barclaycard and the 4NCL would have to get in the queue for hand outs. Presumably that's the way it works in Lawn Tennis and other sports or pastimes with top-down financial support.
Yes, Roger understands and has now had to make this point twice. It is its independence of which the 4NCL is fiercely proud, not its impecunity.

Mick Norris
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:31 pm

The ECF can't force any events to take an overall sponsor - in Manchester, for example, we already have sponsors for the Rapidplay and they may not want to get involved with anyone else

I'm not sure the 4NCL wants sponsors, it can be a double edged sword

The ECF proposition, therefore, would be for ECF events - the national teams, including juniors and seniors, the Grand Prix, the County Championships, National Club etc - even the British would be problematic, although you could argue it should be replaced by an English Championship

I don't doubt the ECF could do this, but having failed to do so to date, it isn't going to be easy
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