Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.

Who should ECF Council elect as President

Edwards, Roger
35
41%
Paulson, Andrew
34
40%
None of the Above
16
19%
 
Total votes: 85

David Sedgwick
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:07 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Mick was certainly right. At the moment, none of the above wins, and the other two need a rapid play off.

(What would happen if that were the final outcome, seeing that JP is here?)
My understanding is that it's a first past the post election, so "None of the Above" would win.

(Edit: The Company Secretary has now confirmed this.)

However, I'll be amazed if the outcome of the real election is anything like that. The one thing about which I'm confident is that "None of the Above" will be a poor third.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:09 pm

John Philpott wrote:Jonathan Rogers wrote
Mick was certainly right. At the moment, none of the above wins, and the other two need a rapid play off.

(What would happen if that were the final outcome, seeing that JP is here?)
The Chairman of the meeting would declare that the post remains vacant, and appointment of the next President would become a matter for the Board.
Oh Ok, I am sure they would have no problem agreeing :P

John McKenna
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by John McKenna » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:12 pm

I know this kind of poll has been done before but, hey, look at the title - Who should the ECF Council elect as President? It is a direct invitation to try to influence Council, or at least any members who may visit the thread. If it had been - who would you like to see as ECF President - then I might have voted.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Richard Bates
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:18 am

A vote for NOTA would be particularly ridiculous in this election. When given a choice between "steady as she goes" and a radical shake-up, what exactly is the third option that people would be looking for? "Steady as she doesn't go"? Someone a bit like Andrew Paulson, just not actually Andrew Paulson?

Mick Norris
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:38 am

Richard Bates wrote:A vote for NOTA would be particularly ridiculous in this election. When given a choice between "steady as she goes" and a radical shake-up, what exactly is the third option that people would be looking for? "Steady as she doesn't go"? Someone a bit like Andrew Paulson, just not actually Andrew Paulson?
If you don't like either candidate, then you might want a different (better) candidate - that's why NOTA has done well in previous elections

There might be a third way, between steady as she goes (=stagnation) and radical shake-up (=chaos) - possibly a ceremonial president who leaves the CEO to run the ECF with the board

I'm not saying I hold these views, but it is a possibility that some people do
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:53 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:A vote for NOTA would be particularly ridiculous in this election. When given a choice between "steady as she goes" and a radical shake-up, what exactly is the third option that people would be looking for? "Steady as she doesn't go"? Someone a bit like Andrew Paulson, just not actually Andrew Paulson?
If you don't like either candidate, then you might want a different (better) candidate - that's why NOTA has done well in previous elections

There might be a third way, between steady as she goes (=stagnation) and radical shake-up (=chaos) - possibly a ceremonial president who leaves the CEO to run the ECF with the board

I'm not saying I hold these views, but it is a possibility that some people do
I should hope that most people do.

I saw that AP says that he has included among his many dinner companions Stuart Conquest (who would seem to fit that bill perfectly) - persuading him that there is no need for him to run, perhaps?

Mick Norris
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:06 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:I saw that AP says that he has included among his many dinner companions Stuart Conquest (who would seem to fit that bill perfectly) - persuading him that there is no need for him to run, perhaps?
Stuart was mentioned last year, but there must be a reason he didn't stand this year
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:22 am

Mick Norris wrote:Stuart was mentioned last year, but there must be a reason he didn't stand this year
Is he not full time in Gibraltar, having been employed as a chess coach and promoter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8jYAzK0IIg

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:48 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:A vote for NOTA would be particularly ridiculous in this election. When given a choice between "steady as she goes" and a radical shake-up, what exactly is the third option that people would be looking for? "Steady as she doesn't go"? Someone a bit like Andrew Paulson, just not actually Andrew Paulson?
...

There might be a third way, between steady as she goes (=stagnation) and radical shake-up (=chaos) - possibly a ceremonial president who leaves the CEO to run the ECF with the board ....

I would think that the reason for a NOTA vote is fairly obvious. I've no idea whether 'Steady as she goes' is a fair description of one candidate - but certainly I've not seen much to contradict that. On the other hand, while 'radical shake-up' would be considered a reasonable summary of the other candidate by some, it wouldn't be agreed by all.

It seems fairly clear that AP is simply not trusted by some chessers. The assumption that he must have some undeclared motive for wanting to be ECF President appears to be shared by a fair few people. Also, although I've not seen it written or said any where yet, maybe some folk feel there's a potential (or even actual) conflict of interest between running an election campaign based on closer engagement with FIDE and having a business relationship with FIDE.

Another third option, then: radical shake up led by somebody who is trusted.


I know that not everybody feels this way about AP. Some people do, though, and some of those won't be keen on the other candidate - perhaps because they see him as a 'no change' option. Hence: NOTA.

John Upham
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:10 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote: radical shake up led by somebody who is trusted.
I suspect anyone who proposed to deliver a program of "radical shake-up" would not be voted for even if they had the dubious pleasure of being "trusted" by Council.

Being trusted by Council is possibly akin to a miscreant youth seeing an ASBO as a "Badge of Honour".

Perhaps you have (a) person(s) in mind?
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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:13 pm

John Upham wrote: Being trusted by Council is possibly akin to a miscreant youth seeing an ASBO as a "Badge of Honour".
Or having David Levy suggest you stand for election as President of the ECF perhaps.


No, I have no specific person in mind. I was just proposing a theoretical 'third option' as a response to Richard's bewilderment at the NOTA voters in this thread.

Anyhoo, if you're right about council automatically rejecting anybody proposing radical change then this thread - and the others that have sprung up of late - are redundant as AP won't be winning anyway. Although I'm not so sure I'm as optimistic/pessimistic (delete as you see fit) as you are re: council in this regard.

John Upham
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:21 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Or having David Levy suggest you stand for election as President of the ECF perhaps.
I very much hope he (or anyone else) hasn't suggested this: I assume this was an example of what, by some, would be regarded as "humour"?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:42 pm

John Upham wrote: I very much hope he (or anyone else) hasn't suggested this: I assume this was an example of what, by some, would be regarded as "humour"?
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... vy#p123346

from which
Andrew Paulson wrote:As I was organising a Grand Prix and the Candidates in London in 2012/2013, I decided to meet with the prominent members of the UK chess community, at least as a courtesy but also as part of my chess education. To this end, I met CJ de Mooi (President of the ECF), Stewart Reuben (former President of the ECF), Nigel Short (ECF Delegate), Malcolm Pein (chess correspondent of the Daily Telegraph), Raymond Keene (chess correspondent of The Times), Stephen Moss (chess correspondent of The Guardian), David Levy (chess engine expert) and Luke McShane and I also traveled once to Leicester to make a courtesy call on various members of the ECF Board. I am not 'friends' with any of these people; but they were/are all key members of the UK chess community.

I first met Phil on July 30th in my office. He had been casually recommended to me by Hilary Altman as someone who could advise me on the ins and outs of ECF politics and running for President. (The idea of standing came from Davy Levy!)

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:51 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote: I very much hope he (or anyone else) hasn't suggested this: I assume this was an example of what, by some, would be regarded as "humour"?
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... vy#p123346

Indeed. Keep up John.

John Upham
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Re: Who should the ECF Council elect as President?

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:02 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Indeed. Keep up John.
Apologies: for one horrible moment I was worried that I had been proposed as an elected official of the ECF.

You've set my mind at rest.
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