Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Martin Crichton
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Martin Crichton » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:56 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:Malcolm Pein has covered the story in his Daily Telegraph column.

Want to read his thoughts? Buy today's Daily Telegraph.
I will rely on one of our good citizen readers here doing a cut and paste :) I am sure it is an interesting read but not so interesting that I would pay hard cash for a copy of the telegraph ! (especially when I get the Metro and Evening standard free every day anyway.)
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Chris Goodall
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:14 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote: Again, all you say is good as your opinion, just don't claim it as a general feeling without any other evidence than your personal opinion.
This.

It's difficult to paint a boardroom coup as a peasant's revolt, when the peasants keep insisting that they don't care either way and are mostly just sick of all this infighting over issues beyond the remit of the ECF. When you find yourself getting told to sit down and stop talking irrelevant, er, piffwabble, chances are you've hit an inconvenient nail on the head.
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Mike Gunn
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Mike Gunn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:08 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Do not underestimate the depth of feeling built up against the FIDE establishment and some of its proposals over the last 20 years amongst those in the UK who actually play or are arbiters for semi-international chess.
You should not assume that everyone shares your opinion either. Most likely I'd say the majority of chess players in UK are completely indifferent to FIDE and their issues.
Nobody knows the views of the majoruty of chess players in the UK because there is no mechanism for establishing those views and (even if such a mechanism was invented), probably most players would be indifferent, as you say. The policy of the ECF is established by the motions passed at Council and by the decisions of the Board (who are elected by Council). Probably a few hundred active players and organizers determine this policy by infuencing the votes of Council members.

What we do know is that the ECF policy has been anti-Kirsan since the days of the Regan board and the ECF has favoured his replacement by somebody else. Most recently you can see this in the election of Nigel Short as FIDE Delegate and particularly in his re-election when faced with a pro FIDE establishment candidate. So it is fair to say (as Roger did) that the English position has been consistently anti-Kirsan for some time now. Andrew Poulson was hoping to (at least) move the ECF position towards a neutral one, but it looks as though the chances of that coming to pass are now fairly remote

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:29 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:Probably a few hundred active players and organizers determine this policy by infuencing the votes of Council members.
The large block vote people decide most things now.
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Gordon Cadden
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Gordon Cadden » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Paolo Casaschi wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Do not underestimate the depth of feeling built up against the FIDE establishment and some of its proposals over the last 20 years amongst those in the UK who actually play or are arbiters for semi-international chess.
You should not assume that everyone shares your opinion either. Most likely I'd say the majority of chess players in UK are completely indifferent to FIDE and their issues.
Nobody knows the views of the majoruty of chess players in the UK because there is no mechanism for establishing those views and (even if such a mechanism was invented), probably most players would be indifferent, as you say. The policy of the ECF is established by the motions passed at Council and by the decisions of the Board (who are elected by Council). Probably a few hundred active players and organizers determine this policy by infuencing the votes of Council members.

What we do know is that the ECF policy has been anti-Kirsan since the days of the Regan board and the ECF has favoured his replacement by somebody else. Most recently you can see this in the election of Nigel Short as FIDE Delegate and particularly in his re-election when faced with a pro FIDE establishment candidate. So it is fair to say (as Roger did) that the English position has been consistently anti-Kirsan for some time now. Andrew Poulson was hoping to (at least) move the ECF position towards a neutral one, but it looks as though the chances of that coming to pass are now fairly remote
You can say that again. I may be prejudiced, having read Sarah Hurst's, the "Curse of Kirsan". We really do need to know exactly where he finds his millions.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:37 pm

I am getting bored of these little dig posts does anyone want some time off?
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Paul McKeown
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:41 pm

Chris Wardle wrote:This.

It's difficult to paint a boardroom coup as a peasant's revolt, when the peasants keep insisting that they don't care either way and are mostly just sick of all this infighting over issues beyond the remit of the ECF. When you find yourself getting told to sit down and stop talking irrelevant, er, piffwabble, chances are you've hit an inconvenient nail on the head.
Can I ask what, in your opinion, makes you more of a grass-roots player than myself? Am I a member of some concealed elite conspiring to pull the puppet strings within the ECF to maintain the status quo? The ECF Illuminati, perhaps? Or perhaps you want some sort of willy waving competition to determine who is more grass-roots than the other? Amusing.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:34 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:Nobody knows the views of the majoruty of chess players in the UK
Agreed. So nobody should claim they represent the feelings of the majority of chess players in UK.
Mike Gunn wrote:The policy of the ECF is established by the motions passed at Council and by the decisions of the Board (who are elected by Council). Probably a few hundred active players and organizers determine this policy by infuencing the votes of Council members.
Agreed, because the ECF board and council do not actually represent the ECF members base (no vote for them). I always find amusing how some people criticize FIDE election rules for lack of representation and at the same time are OK with the ECF election rules de facto ignoring members.

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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote: I always find amusing how some people criticize FIDE election rules for lack of representation and at the same time are OK with the ECF election rules de facto ignoring members.
That's not entirely true. If the ECF membership suddenly decided en bloc to take a position on ECF issues those Council members who have a constituency would be held to account. Even congress representatives would have to be a little bit careful as to how they voted.
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David Robertson
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by David Robertson » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:14 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Paolo Casaschi wrote: I always find amusing how some people criticize FIDE election rules for lack of representation and at the same time are OK with the ECF election rules de facto ignoring members.
That's not entirely true. Perhaps not. But it is largely true

If the ECF membership suddenly decided en bloc to take a position on ECF issues those Council members who have a constituency would be held to account. Oh, puhleeze! This requires 'constituencies' to be informed and reliably advised by delegates. Not on this planet; not at this time

Even congress representatives would have to be a little bit careful as to how they voted. Possibly 'careful'. But otherwise, they needn't give a fvck: 'Congress' block votes rule OK

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JustinHorton
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:43 am

Is there something wrong with my screen?
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John McKenna
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:40 am

No need to adjust your set, Justin.
It was just David R putting Andrew Z back in the box.
Last edited by John McKenna on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin Crichton
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Martin Crichton » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:51 am

Nigel Short wrote:Are Nigel & Andrew so at loggerheads that they cannot see the damage being done?
Would you rather not know about the true nature of Andrew Paulson's relationship with Kirsan? Would you rather not know how this American interloper who, up until a couple of years ago, had no prior interest in or connection with chess in England, is using the ECF as a vehicle for his own (and indeed Kirsan's) international ambitions? If blissful ignorance is what you want, I am deeply sorry for having disturbed your peace. If, however, the hijacking of English chess for political ends by a foreigner is a matter of some importance to you, then I trust you will forgive me for the temporary turbulence.[/quote]

so please enlighten me Nigel :) I only pass through here now and then...wasn't even aware that Paulson was president of the ECF until last week when I came across this topic on the forum.....

How did he rise from obscurity to become president of the ECF?
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Paul McKeown
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:02 am

Martin Crichton wrote:How did he rise from obscurity to become president of the ECF?
More or less. He had lived a previous life in the Virgin Islands as a brass plate.

John McKenna
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Re: Emergency Board Meeting - Draft Minutes

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:21 am

The American or the British Virgin Islands?
Is there a difference? Their common denominator is capital(ism).
Andrew P is probably just a good practising capitalist.
Oh sorry, only bad capitalists operate from tax havens set up by whom?
Why, governments naturally.
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