ECF Constitutional Matters

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Roger de Coverly
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ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:28 pm

Perhaps not of great interest, but the ECF Directors have been busy signing the ECF up to a supposedly voluntary code of conduct and also a review of governance. Doing this a few weeks before an AGM and without advance warning by mentioning it in published Board Minutes is to my mind a Governance Issue in itself, but typical of Board behaviour, whatever various candidates might say or have said about openness when touting for election support.

More at http://www.englishchess.org.uk/independ ... ommission/
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... ?f=4&t=189
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... ?f=4&t=190

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Rob Thompson
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Rob Thompson » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:31 pm

The ECF has been working on a code of conduct for years, so it's entirely unsurprising that they continue to work on a code of conduct.
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John Townsend
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by John Townsend » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:54 pm

What has happened about the complaints which were submitted in 2013 - or was it 2012?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:14 pm

Rob Thompson wrote:The ECF has been working on a code of conduct for years, so it's entirely unsurprising that they continue to work on a code of conduct.
It is however surprising that they adopt that of the CCPR as was or the Sport and Recreation Alliance as it now terms itself, particularly when they could have waited for the AGM and got the wider voting membership to endorse it.

There's a regular report by the ECF's Delegate, the most recent being for last year's AGM
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... e-2013.pdf

I didn't read it as signalling that the ECF was intent on signing up for their code.

harrylamb
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by harrylamb » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:26 am

John Townsend wrote:What has happened about the complaints which were submitted in 2013 - or was it 2012?
I dunno. One of them is mine. I have a receipt acknowledging my complaint. Then nothing. I have heard rumors on this forum that the ECF is refusing to deal with complaints. Especially those involving directors as mine does. This would indicate that directors are perfect so complaints against them are by definition not valid. One would think that having acknowledged my complaint the ECF would deal with it. Or in the extreme circumstances that they are not going to deal with it, they would tell me. With all their concern about good governance they ought to tell me the status of my complaint.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:27 am

harrylamb wrote: I have heard rumors on this forum that the ECF is refusing to deal with complaints. Especially those involving directors as mine does.
There was a view that as the voting members appointed directors, only they could dismiss them. If you wanted to bring the ECF or the director concerned into disrepute, you could try posting the story or the edited highlights at their official forum. That might apply particularly if the director concerned was no longer in office.

But the ECF like the BCF before it should have a process to resolve disputes. A spat between a county and a league wishing to become a county might have been resolved at the time instead of dragging on for getting on for fifty years.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:32 am

harrylamb wrote: I have heard rumors on this forum that the ECF is refusing to deal with complaints. Especially those involving directors as mine does. This would indicate that directors are perfect so complaints against them are by definition not valid.
Ironic, coming from someone whose own federation rules do not allow for appeals against his decisions; even when they are wrong according to the laws of chess and despite his own federation rules prohibiting him from making a decision in the first place.

harrylamb
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by harrylamb » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:06 am

Sean,

The dispute you are referring to happened in 2009. Its five years ago. Time is supposed to be great healer I know you do not often do so but maybe you should gracefully accept accept a ruling against you.

May I correct some of the statements you make
Sean Hewitt wrote:Ironic, coming from someone whose own federation rules do not allow for appeals against his decisions;
It was not my decision it was the decision of the Manchester Chess Federation Disputes Committee
Sean Hewitt wrote: even when they are wrong according to the laws of chess
The disputes committee did not consider its decision was wrong according to the Laws of Chess. The MCF council took the same view.
Sean Hewitt wrote: and despite his own federation rules prohibiting him from making a decision in the first place.
Again it was not my decision it was the decision of the MCF Disputes Committee. The disputes committee clearly feels that it was acting in accordance with the MCF rules and the decision the disputes committee took was supported by the MCF Council
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Michael Farthing
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Michael Farthing » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:28 am

May I commend Harry for answering this criticism clearly and politely in the public forum where it was raised. Other people being criticised in this way might simply have put pressure on the forum administrator to remove the critical post entirely by threatening to take some form of legal action.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:01 am

Michael Farthing wrote:May I commend Harry for answering this criticism clearly and politely in the public forum where it was raised.
A little bit of Googling shows that there was a dispute in a League game resolved to local satisfaction by a specific Disputes Committee. This seems to be what the ECF are suggesting on a National scale with the caveat that local resolution should be attempted. I don't know whether there was ever a summary of the agreed evidence and the logic of the decision made. Perhaps not, or at least not in public, as it appears one of the parties is still aggrieved. The reason for asking is that a "dispute at a league match" is something everyone playing in leagues could become involved with and precedents may be useful.

In the thread about how to resign, there's mention of a row when a player thought there was a rule allowing deferred draw acceptance. As we all know there isn't, notwithstanding an article in Malcolm's magazine proposing such a rule.

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:39 pm

harrylamb wrote:
John Townsend wrote:What has happened about the complaints which were submitted in 2013 - or was it 2012?
I dunno. One of them is mine. I have a receipt acknowledging my complaint. Then nothing. I have heard rumors on this forum that the ECF is refusing to deal with complaints. Especially those involving directors as mine does. This would indicate that directors are perfect so complaints against them are by definition not valid. One would think that having acknowledged my complaint the ECF would deal with it. Or in the extreme circumstances that they are not going to deal with it, they would tell me. With all their concern about good governance they ought to tell me the status of my complaint.
You played a match on 3 September - you were board 3 and your board 6 is an ECF NED - why not ask Julian?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

John Townsend
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by John Townsend » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:24 pm

Wouldn't it be more businesslike if Harry had a reply in writing to his complaint?

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:56 pm

John Townsend wrote:Wouldn't it be more businesslike if Harry had a reply in writing to his complaint?
Yes, absolutely, and everyone else too - but the ECF isn't a business - they do have an official forum where presumably people can ask questions like this, and the NEDs (and other Directors) email addresses are on the ECF website

Personally, I find the current NEDs very helpful - there are also the Gold member reps - indeed lots of ways of contacting the ECF to find out what is going on
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF Constitutional Matters

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:31 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
John Townsend wrote:Wouldn't it be more businesslike if Harry had a reply in writing to his complaint?
Yes, absolutely, and everyone else too - but the ECF isn't a business - they do have an official forum where presumably people can ask questions like this, and the NEDs (and other Directors) email addresses are on the ECF website

Personally, I find the current NEDs very helpful - there are also the Gold member reps - indeed lots of ways of contacting the ECF to find out what is going on
The normal procedure if you haven't heard of any progress is to send a reminder.

Over the intervening 2 years (?) it is likely that either personnel have changed or that the complaint has been put to one side, with the intention of responding once the complaints procedure has been clarified, and it has simply been forgotten.

I wouldn't have waited 2 years!

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