1 1/2 points per game

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Stewart Reuben
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:50 pm

Roger >to what extent does any requirement to "act in the best interest of the competition" require him or her to take account to take into account the impact of his or her decision on other players in the competition?<

He must bear it in mind at all times.
0-0.5 is understandable. e.g. The game takes place it was a draw. White hits the arbiter after the game and is given a zero. 1-0.5 or 1-1 require greater imagination. The new secretary of the Rules Commission said this is not all that uncommon practice in the US.
If it is in the first couple of rounds, it relies on the Swiss balancing things out. If in the last round, it might happen because neither player can win a prize, nor affect anybody else's prize.

NickFaulks
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:48 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote: 0-0.5 is understandable. e.g. The game takes place it was a draw. White hits the arbiter after the game and is given a zero.
Really? You can expel the player from the tournament, but how do you justify changing the result of a game that is over?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:37 pm

You award the miscreant a zero in the game. That way he loss a point from his score. Take a look at 8.7.

NickFaulks
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:53 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:You award the miscreant a zero in the game. That way he loss a point from his score. Take a look at 8.7.
That is a perversion of 8.7 and you know it. Arbiters have given themselves such powers to determine the result of games that I sometimes wonder why players bother to play them at all.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:00 pm

The game is certainly not over until both players sign the scoresheet and not even then in exceptional cicumstances.. In this instance the miscreant was too busy attacking somebody to do so.
I am surprised you did not want to award the player an EXTRA point for thumping the arbiter,

NickFaulks
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:55 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: I am surprised you did not want to award the player an EXTRA point for thumping the arbiter,
Why would I want that? I'm just a simple player, and I think players should be given the result they achieved in the game, no more, no less. The idea that an arbiter can go back and change the result of a game in pursuit of a personal grievance is wrong. If that was the intention of whoever drafted 8.7 ( perhaps you ) it was not understood by those who approved it.

edit. I've gone back to 8.7.

"At the conclusion of the game both players shall sign both scoresheets, indicating the result of the game. Even if incorrect, this result shall stand, unless the arbiter decides otherwise."

The second sentence suggests to me that if the result is correct, the arbiter should not decide otherwise. You may reply that the arbiter decides what is correct, but in that case "even if incorrect" is redundant.

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David Shepherd
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by David Shepherd » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:05 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:e.g. The game takes place it was a draw. White hits the arbiter after the game and is given a zero. 1-0.5 or 1-1 require greater imagination. The new secretary of the Rules Commission said this is not all that uncommon practice in the US.
Not much fun being an arbiter in the US then.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:05 pm

Nick, as secretary of the Qualification Commission, really doesn't like games that do not add up to one point. Here is a possible scenario.
11.3b. The rules of the competition have not specified a less severe penalty.
White has his mobile phone locked into his bag at his side. He is known not to have accessed the phone during the game.
Now his mobile phone goes off, possibly the low battery warning. He loses, thus scoring 0.
His opponent has a bare king. Why should he win? Thus he scores 0.5. Nick can tell us how such a game is rated. Can the players get norms includng such a game?

I think Sevan Muradian, the secretary of the Rules Commission, was referring to games in the US NOT played to the FIDE Laws of Chess.

NickFaulks
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:58 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote: Nick can tell us how such a game is rated.
On the contrary, the keepers of the rating system have no input into the decision. The arbiter decides how he wants the game to be rated. For what my opinion is worth, I have always believed that once a player is down to a bare king his opponent has done enough to secure half a point and, unless something comes to light that took place earlier, that cannot be taken away.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:59 pm

Nick > I have always believed that once a player is down to a bare king his opponent has done enough to secure half a point and, unless something comes to light that took place earlier, that cannot be taken away.<

Have you suggested that to The Rules Commission? It does not coincide with 11.3b.

Nick > The arbiter decides how he wants the game to be rated.<
Don't say that too loudly in some countries. The arbiter will simply award both players a win, thus increasing the rating pool in his country.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:45 pm

NickFaulks wrote:Arbiters have given themselves such powers to determine the result of games that I sometimes wonder why players bother to play them at all.
Perhaps so that they can beat them, as you recently did to me.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: 1 1/2 points per game

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:40 pm

For later developments, please see separate thread, "ECF arbiting at Aberyswyth - FIDE perspective".

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