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Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:14 am
by Mike Gunn
Thanks, I'll do that.

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:25 am
by Roger de Coverly
David Sedgwick wrote: My recollection is that at the time of his death he had sold it, with remainder for his lifetime. That would suggest that it reverted to the owner.
The catalogue earlier in the thread has a number of books with the identifier WAD. I had assumed these were the "Wade" collection.

The complete list of sources for the books catalogued is

CLA - ?
CRO - Ted Croker presumably
DIG - George(?) Diggle perhaps
DUN - John Dunleavy
ECF - Sir Richard Clarke and perhaps others
EUW - just 1 book - maybe misclassified unless Euwe donated a book once
GOL - Harry Golombek
JOR - John Robinson possibly
RAV - ?
RUM - David Rumens ? a lifetime donation
WAD - I had assumed Bob Wade. There's foreign language material in there.

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:38 am
by Christopher Kreuzer
Roger de Coverly wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote: My recollection is that at the time of his death he had sold it, with remainder for his lifetime. That would suggest that it reverted to the owner.
The catalogue earlier in the thread has a number of books with the identifier WAD. I had assumed these were the "Wade" collection.

The complete list of sources for the books catalogued is

CLA - ?
CRO - Ted Croker presumably
DIG - George(?) Diggle perhaps
DUN - John Dunleavy
ECF - Sir Richard Clarke and perhaps others
EUW - just 1 book - maybe misclassified unless Euwe donated a book once
GOL - Harry Golombek
JOR - John Robinson possibly
RAV - ?
RUM - David Rumens ? a lifetime donation
WAD - I had assumed Bob Wade. There's foreign language material in there.
Maybe CLA is Clarke?
RAV is probably Christopher Ravilious:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8104

But maybe there is a key somewhere to the index?

See also here and here:
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... =343#p3009
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/national-chess-library/

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:08 pm
by Paul Cooksey
If I'm unhappy with the ECF Board after the Finance Council, I'm going to donate all the old opening books in my loft :twisted:

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:22 pm
by Julie Denning
The named collections that I boxed up and transferred to storage in 2015 were as follows:-

Clarke
Croker
Diggle
Golombek
Jordan
Dunleavy
Rumsey
Ravilious
Wade
Whiting

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:24 pm
by Mike Truran
People are always unhappy with the ECF Board. It's one of the eternal truths of English chess.

We would love to have your books so long as they are accompanied by an appropriate financial contribution to maintain them in the future. As they say, once bitten twice shy. :wink:

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:03 pm
by David Sedgwick
Roger de Coverly wrote: CRO - Ted Croker presumably
Eric Croker

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:36 pm
by Richard James
Roger de Coverly wrote: DIG - George(?) Diggle perhaps
Geoffrey Harber Diggle

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:06 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Julie Denning wrote:The named collections that I boxed up and transferred to storage in 2015 were as follows:-
Why did the University see fit to keep complete what were mostly unremarkable and duplicated collections by chess enthusiasts? You might keep a list of what they had collected over their lifetime, but the physical books?

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:16 pm
by Julie Denning
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Julie Denning wrote:The named collections that I boxed up and transferred to storage in 2015 were as follows:-
Why did the University see fit to keep complete what were mostly unremarkable and duplicated collections by chess enthusiasts? You might keep a list of what they had collected over their lifetime, but the physical books?
Pass!

At the time I understood there was a possible question over whether particular collections had been donated or loaned. If the latter, there was obviously the possibility of their return being requested.

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:18 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Julie Denning wrote:The named collections that I boxed up and transferred to storage in 2015 were as follows:-
Why did the University see fit to keep complete what were mostly unremarkable and duplicated collections by chess enthusiasts? You might keep a list of what they had collected over their lifetime, but the physical books?
Probably uncertainty over the differences between editions. You need relatively large amounts of time and a little expertise to accurately identify the true extent of the duplication and what is worth keeping. There are two narratives here: (1) That there is extensive duplication; (2) That there are books of genuine value worth preserving and maintaining as part of a national collection.

Until the work is actually done on determining that (the spreadsheet from 2011 is a start, but only a start), then talking about what to do doesn't actually get anywhere. Those commenting on this thread would be better off volunteering their time to help with that task (I would if I had the time). One of the problems is consistency. You really need a person with an understanding of what is needed, overseeing the effort, making sure that the volunteer work is done efficiently and consistently.

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:20 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Julie Denning wrote: At the time I understood there was a possible question over whether particular collections had been donated or loaned. If the latter, there was obviously the possibility of their return being requested.
That gives the ECF another disposal option, as well an adding another complexity. Request politely that the owners either take back the collections or make an annual contribution to their storage and upkeep.

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:37 pm
by Brian Towers
Roger de Coverly wrote:That gives the ECF another disposal option, as well an adding another complexity. Request politely that the owners either take back the collections or make an annual contribution to their storage and upkeep.
Do you have contact details for a medium with a proven track record?

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:42 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
"Why did the University see fit to keep complete what were mostly unremarkable and duplicated collections by chess enthusiasts? You might keep a list of what they had collected over their lifetime, but the physical books?


Pass!

At the time I understood there was a possible question over whether particular collections had been donated or loaned. If the latter, there was obviously the possibility of their return being requested."

The bane of museum curators' lives is people "lending" things. The museum then has to store the items, insure them etc., only for the owner to demand the return of the item. If you try to lend an item to a museum, they will normally politely decline. Half the time they cannot store the things they are given. I would think also that as the University was storing the collection on behalf of B/ECF, they considered they were not really in a position to chuck stuff out. So I suspect that B/ECF said "please store chess literature", University said "yes", and then waited for further instruction on duplicates. meanwhile, B/ECF (not being curators) didn't realize that the University was expecting such instructions. This may be controversial, but I don't think we should panic about whose fault something is, when it might not be anybody's fault. Now we're aware there might be a problem, we could actually try to sort it out?
Meanwhile, I will get on with cataloguing my collection in order to sell it!

Re: National Chess Library closure

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:47 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
For books with barcodes, it is possible to use smartphones now (with the necessary apps installed) to scan the barcodes and produce at least a first pass at a catalogue. For books without barcodes but with ISBNs, you can type in the ISBN and get the details recalled from a website somewhere (though check the quality of that data). For a really good quality catalogue, you still need to check the details yourself, and add details on the condition the book is in. For pre-ISBN books, the process is still somewhat laborious.