Director of Finance

[Stewart Reuben]

Provided the money is administered properly, I don't see why any outsider should care.
We have a highly capable paid officer in charge, Cynthia Gurney.
Mike Adams in Chairman of the Finance committee.
John Philpott is Chairman of the Governance committee and a member of the FC as are several other able people.

What we lack is a Director of Finance who looks to the future allocation of financial resources and ways of raising of money.
Council has the fixed idea that there is a moral imperative to charge the minimum fees, rather than give the best value for money. While that attitude continues, Finance Directors will always become dispirited and difficult to recruit.

Stewart Reuben

[John Upham]

Provided the money is administered properly, I don't see why any outsider should care.

Are the affairs of Chess Centre Ltd included in this proviso?

Do you feel that the finances of CCL have been managed in accordance with the wishes of ECF Council?

[E Michael White]

Provided the money is administered properly, I don't see why any outsider should care.

Is it known what the rate of return on the various funds, PiIFs CCL etcm has been during the turbulent last two years. Have the officers and trustees done well ?

[Stewart Reuben]

The Finance Director has no contractual input into the CCL. it is an autonomous body. Council has no control over the CCL, nor the PIF. Of course the opinions of the FD, if any, will be listened to.

Ernie, I never said that Cynthia is doing the job of FD. She is doing most of the routine work that he would be overseeing and directing.

E Michael White. I don't know the precise figures regarding investments of the CCL and PIF in the past couple of years.
The CCL money was not invested at all aggressively and thus did very well September to March. The PIF is substantially invested in equities and thus did badly in the same period. It is probably now recovering.

Stewart Reuben

[E Michael White]

Council has no control over the CCL, nor the PIF.

Maybe not directly.
I dont see how trustees of the PIF or directors of the CCl can discharge their legal obligation to use the funds for the stated trust reasons without consulting the controlling chess body in this country ie the ECF.

[John Upham]

Has there been any?

I have seen a couple of press releases with his name at the bottom. That is all I am aware of.

In any case, PJBW is not standing so this is no longer an issue.

[Roger de Coverly]

[

I am puzzled; if that is so how did Council get to vote on the subject of the £35,000 in the Chess centre limited ?

I thought that what was supposed to happen was that the ECF would ask the PIF for the Chess Centre Limited to be transferred to its ownership. All assets and liabilities of CCL would stay in the PIF so the ECF would just get a shell. There may be legal, accounting or fiscal reasons why this cannot be done but they need to be identified. The ECF has a strategic plan of sorts that it sees a future need to divide itself into a "professional" arm and an amateur arm, the point being for the amateur arm to try for charitable status. The idea of the CCL was that it would become the "professional" arm. If the CCL cannot be used, then the ECF will need to consider setting a new "limited by shares" company to replace CCL.

In a way it's a good thing that the PIF is separate from the ECF. It means that if the ECF were to come to an unfortunate end, funds would exist to set up a replacement. It's a disadvantage though when the management of the ECF and the management of the PIF are hostile to one another.

[Carl Hibbard]

I thought that what was supposed to happen was that the ECF would ask the PIF for the Chess Centre Limited to be transferred to its ownership. All assets and liabilities of CCL would stay in the PIF so the ECF would just get a shell. There may be legal, accounting or fiscal reasons why this cannot be done but they need to be identified. The ECF has a strategic plan of sorts that it sees a future need to divide itself into a "professional" arm and an amateur arm, the point being for the amateur arm to try for charitable status. The idea of the CCL was that it would become the "professional" arm. If the CCL cannot be used, then the ECF will need to consider setting a new "limited by shares" company to replace CCL.

According to this forum one of the directors decided not to follow the instructions of the previous AGM...

Council did report this would be investigated but no further information was forthcoming

[David Sedgwick]

At the April 2008 ECF Council Meeting, Council expressed the wish that the assets of Chess Centre Limited should be transferred to the Permanent Invested Fund.

At the April 2009 Meeting, it became apparent that Council's wishes of a year previously had not been implemented, for whatever reason. Chris Majer undertook to report back to the October 2009 Meeting, either reporting that Council's wishes had been implemented or explaining the reasons why they had not.

This is covered in Richard Haddrell's report of the April 2009 Meeting at: http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/bcf.htm. See "Permanent Invested Fund" under item 5.

I suggest that we should await Chris Majer's report to the forthcoming Council Meeting. If further action is necessary, Council can ask the new Board to take appropriate steps.

Certainly it would be a serious matter if the Directors of Chess Centre Limited were to refuse (as opposed to fail) to abide by the wishes of the ECF Council and Board. However, I don't feel that that situation has yet been reached.

[Stewart Reuben]

The April 2008 proposal at the ECF Council was rather a silly one. People do not understand the CCL is an independent company, the shares of which are held by the trustees of the PIF. There was no scandal.
Council can express its wishes, but they do not have to be followed.
Certainly Alan Martin expressed the view that transferring the capital of CCL to the ECF might prove to be asset stripping and the money might very well then be frittered away. He seems unaware that part of the capital came from an investment the BCF made in buying BCM. The rest came from a bequest made by Harry Golombek which is earmarked to go towards the National Library in Hastings.
English chess has lots of these small pots of gold all over the place. They are little understood.
British Chess Educational Trust
BCF Youth Chess Trust
John Robinson Trust
Permanent Invested Fund
Chess Centre Ltd
Ian Wells Memorial Fund
CHO'D Alexander Best Game Prize
That is just off the top of my head. I expect I have forgotten some. These are the only ones connected with the ECF/BCF.

If the ECF does split in to two companies perhaps ECF Amateur Ltd and ECF Professional Ltd, in order to get charitable status for the former, there would be no difficulty in setting up a new company.

Stewart Reuben

Steawrt Reuben

[Matthew Turner]

I have never really understood the situation with Chess Centre Limited. Stewart Reuben wrote "'Council has no control over the CCL, nor the PIF'."
What does this mean, in simple terms whose money is it in CCL?
Could the Directors just keep the money, or (over)pay themselves for admnistering the fund?
I am not suggesting any wrongdoing, I just don't understand the legal situation.

[Roger de Coverly]

I have never really understood the situation with Chess Centre Limited.

There was an unincorporated body founded in 1904 to administer chess. In 1906 it established a Permanent Invested Fund. Chess Centre Limited was owned by the PIF and was used by the unincorporated body when it needed limited liability. The PIF was included in the balance sheet of the parent body as part of Fixed Assets.

The name of this unincorporated body - The British Chess Federation. It still exists and its Council is a subset of the ECF Council. So presumably the Council of the BCF can instruct the Trustees of the BCF PIF. If there is a good reason not to transfer the assets, then really this should have been established eighteen months ago. A statement by the CCL directors would have sufficed.

(material from the 2004 BCF year book)

The PIF presumably has in excess of £ 100,000 in assets. Clarification of what body owns it and how that body makes decisions on it would be welcome. I believe that the ECF directors are also BCF directors and that the BCF council is a subset of ECF council ( unions and counties only ). Thus decisions on the PIF should be taken by the BCF directors and BCF council.

[David Sedgwick]

The April 2008 proposal at the ECF Council was rather a silly one.

You are entitled to your opinion. When I'm seeking election, I prefer not to malign my electorate in this sort of way.

People do not understand the CCL is an independent company, the shares of which are held by the trustees of the PIF.

The bulk of the money in Chess Centre Limited arises from the sale of British Chess Magazine, a decision taken by the BCF Council in April 1992. I remember the occasion well, as it was the first Council Meeting which I ever intended.

It was explained, and accepted, that the proceeds of the sale would be retained in Chess Centre Limited so as to avoid an unnecessary tax liability. However, there was never any suggestion that the monies were anything other than BCF funds, to be applied as Council saw fit (just as Council had approved the sale of BCM).

In the event Council more or less forgot about these monies for the next sixteen years. Then in April 2008 the ECF Council, effectively the successor body to the BCF Council of 1992, sought to assert its right to say what should be done with BCF/ECF funds.

Council can express its wishes, but they do not have to be followed.

I disagree.

[Matthew Turner]

Roger DeCoverley
Said "Chess Centre Limited was owned by the PIF "

However, this comes from Martin Regan

"The shares in Chess Centre are held by Richard Moore and Keith Richardson – and the directors of the company are Gerry Walsh and Alan Martin. The old board wished to use this non-managed asset to help secure the future of International Chess and the British Championships. The shareholders have the say."

Legally speaking are the assets owned by Moore and Richardson, the PIF or some other entity.

[David Sedgwick]

The PIF presumably has in excess of £ 100,000 in assets. Clarification of what body owns it and how that body makes decisions on it would be welcome. I believe that the ECF directors are also BCF directors and that the BCF council is a subset of ECF council ( unions and counties only ). Thus decisions on the PIF should be taken by the BCF directors and BCF council.

I am unhappy about your last sentence.

When the present atructure was established in 2005, it was envisaged that the remaining BCF would be a purely vestigial organisation. Very little attention was paid to the composition of its Council, as it was anticipated that the ECF Council, then and now a more broadly based democratic body, would be taking all the important decisions.

In the event things haven't worked out like that. The BCF Council has proved to be far more significant than was expected, mainly because of the John Robinson legacy but also in relation to other issues, as this thread has shown.

For this reason I suggested at the Special Council Meeting(s) in July 2008 that the BCF Council should be invited to delegate all its powers and responsibilities to the ECF Council.

I would respectfully suggest that this is an idea to which the new ECF Board could usefully return.