Ask the Directors

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Angus French
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Angus French » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:11 pm

Like the idea of 'Ask the Directors'.

Will questions be copied to the CEO and the NEDs as well as the selected Director(s)?

I notice Dominic Lawson isn't in the list of Directors who can be asked a question.

Mark Jordan
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Mark Jordan » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:08 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Thanks Mark

Paul Dargan made a good point. I asked an online question at work and was asked by a manager what the answer was!
I think there's a bit of a difference between a work situation with a management hierarchy and a boss who asks "any questions" and then greets an unwelcome contribution with a glassy smile! The on-line version in workplaces is usually not much different! In this case it is rather the directors putting themselves on the line and they've been voted in rather than appointed which makes a difference. Also the director concerned will certainly answer the question with only three exceptions:

1) The question is urgent and the director is simply not around to give an answer. Someone else will have to deal with it!
2) It may be delegated if one of the officers is more expert on whatever the issue might be.
3) The office can re-direct if the questioner has asked a question of the wrong director, for example a membership question to the Home Director.

Mark Jordan
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Mark Jordan » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:31 am

Angus French wrote:Like the idea of 'Ask the Directors'.

Will questions be copied to the CEO and the NEDs as well as the selected Director(s)?

I notice Dominic Lawson isn't in the list of Directors who can be asked a question.
I don't think there'll normally be copied unless the CEO or an NED needs to be consulted on the issue, which may well happen sometimes, but all the questions and answers will be logged by the office and the whole application including those questions and answers will be reviewed. If an issue arises the CEO or NEDs will be able to access the log.

The CEO and Directors are responsible for running the work of ECF whilst Dominic, as the President, is one step removed from the hurly-burly and isn't really in a position to actively participate in "Ask the Directors". That is not to say he might not be consulted from time to time and he would also have access to the log.

John Upham
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:47 am

I would like to pose the following question (and will attempt to use the official facility)

What was the ECFs and BCFs Corporation Tax liability for the three most recent tax years?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:09 am

John Upham wrote:
What was the ECFs and BCFs Corporation Tax liability for the three most recent tax years?
Is it not disclosed in the Accounts if you know where to look? The Accounts are available on the "Council" page of the ECF site.

How much net VAT was paid is something you won't find in the Accounts.

John Upham
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:27 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote:
What was the ECFs and BCFs Corporation Tax liability for the three most recent tax years?
Is it not disclosed in the Accounts if you know where to look? The Accounts are available on the "Council" page of the ECF site.

How much net VAT was paid is something you won't find in the Accounts.
You might like to discover the most recent Corporation Tax liability and compare it with say the amount for Google, Facebook or Amazon in the UK.
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Simon Brown
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Simon Brown » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:17 pm

John Upham wrote:
You might like to discover the most recent Corporation Tax liability and compare it with say the amount for Google, Facebook or Amazon in the UK.
Why? Are you thinking of relocating the office to Cayman?

John Upham
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:03 pm

Question posed and the automated reply is:
Thanks for your input - we'll be back in touch within five working days ...
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Mick Norris
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:18 pm

John Upham wrote:I would like to pose the following question (and will attempt to use the official facility)

What was the ECFs and BCFs Corporation Tax liability for the three most recent tax years?
ECF paid £11,087 for 2014/15 and £6,556 for 2013/14

BCF paid nil for y/e 2015 and £274 for y/e 2014

Taken from the Accounts, freely available on the ECF website, no need to ask anyone
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Bob Kane
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Bob Kane » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:44 pm

Ouch !! Paying 11k corporation tax after asking the membership to find another 10k in fees (£1 rise)
surely timely tax planning could have reduced the bill. Would Digital boards be a qualifying asset?

any accountants care to comment....

16DGT boards at £595

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:56 pm

Bob Kane wrote:Ouch !! Paying 11k corporation tax after asking the membership to find another 10k in fees (£1 rise)
I think for every £ 100 the ECF asks from its membership and uses to fund the building of reserves, there's a tax leakage of £ 33.33.

So Income net of VAT £ 83.33 and Corporation Tax is 20% of that if there are no expenditures. VAT would be £ 16.67 when no offsets.

If the reserves are run down during a loss making period, does that enable the Corporation Tax to be reclaimed or offset against the future.

John Upham
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:59 pm

A current director spoke with me at a recent junior event in Westminster and was incredulous that this amount of funds could have been allowed to go down the toilet.

Am I correct to think that by spending potential surplus one can mitigate the amount wasted on corporation tax?

So, I am asking if this liability could have been sensibly avoided by a competent DoF?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:38 pm

John Upham wrote: Am I correct to think that by spending potential surplus one can mitigate the amount wasted on corporation tax?
I suspect you are unlikely, without clever accounting, to be able both run a surplus to increase reserves and not pay Corporation Tax. The ECF hasn't had a proper answer to this since it was formed. In the days of the BCF, the Permanent Invested Fund was consolidated with the funds used to run the BCF.

Looking back in time at the BCF Accounts for 1994 (1996 Yearbook), it declared a surplus of £ 14,298, but only paid £ 833 in Corporation Tax. Quite how this alchemy was worked isn't known. As speculation, perhaps it wasn't subject to Corporation Tax on that part of its Revenue which came from Government funding. The other thought is that perhaps there were brought forward losses, the BCF having taken a hit from funding the 1986 World Championship and a general drying up of sponsorship.

If only by looking back at past history, it would seem a valid AGM question to ask why so much Corporation Tax was payable when in previous years it wasn't.

Bob Kane
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Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Bob Kane » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:00 pm

I would guess its hard to attract sponsors or govt funding when you have 100K sitting in reserves.

Martin Regan

Re: Ask the Directors

Post by Martin Regan » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:27 pm

I suspect you are unlikely, without clever accounting
It would be quite simple I would guess to spend down the money by accounting for grant costs that will actually fall in a future tax year, but of course that just kicks the can down the road. If council realised that "building up reserves" actually carried a vary high marginal tax cost they might not be so keen. It would have been more tax efficient not to touch the JRT and to spend down the surplus.

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