Abolish Game Fee!

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
IanCalvert
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by IanCalvert » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:23 pm

Maybe an easier/ alternative administrative system is to insist on at least Bronze membership but with rebates. If non-members play. in a representative team the body represented is liable A player might be able to claim a rebate at year end from ECF if less than 6 (say) rated games are played.

Possible variants include the £15 playable in two six monthly installments.

User avatar
Michael Farthing
Posts: 1798
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Morecambe, Europe

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Michael Farthing » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:25 pm

Why not simply give a new player free Bronze membership for one year as an introduictory offer? The whole aim of not charging is to encourage new players so this is a much better solution. If, after one year, the player has not developed the keenness to continue without monetary incentive then the player is probably not going to get that keenness in future, so commercially speaking there's no point in bothering with him/her any further!!

T.T.W.T*

*A new invention - attentive readers will know I have this bad habit.

Richard Bates
Posts: 2890
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:35 pm

This is all beginning to look like solutions in search of an undefined problem

Michael Flatt
Posts: 1231
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:36 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:58 pm

I'm glad that players are warming to the idea and coming up with alternative ideas too.

I don't know how much it might cost the ECF in lost revenue, but I remain dubious of the £14k figure previously quoted.

To recap, the proposal was to eliminate those annoying bills from the ECF to league officials (generally the secretary or Treasurer) that had been incurred by playing non ECF members in the club or county team. The simpler alternative is for team captains to only select ECF members or to ensure they collect a board fee. It's not a perfect world and these things don't always happen.

Mike Truran
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:34 pm

You can remain as dubious as you like, but that's the number.

I'm not sure what idea it is that you think people are warming to, but it might help us all if you actually suggested a workable solution.

Brian Valentine
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:37 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:I'm glad that players are warming to the idea and coming up with alternative ideas too.

I don't know how much it might cost the ECF in lost revenue, but I remain dubious of the £14k figure previously quoted.

To recap, the proposal was to eliminate those annoying bills from the ECF to league officials (generally the secretary or Treasurer) that had been incurred by playing non ECF members in the club or county team. The simpler alternative is for team captains to only select ECF members or to ensure they collect a board fee. It's not a perfect world and these things don't always happen.
I can understand you thinking £14K dubious, I picked the lowest number from the finance council spreadsheet:
2014-5: £16,776 actual
2015-6: £13,912 budget
2015-6: £17,450 forecast
2016-7: £17,460 budget

Mike Truran
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:48 pm

Brian

You're right. Sorry!

Mike

Michael Flatt
Posts: 1231
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:36 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:18 pm

It looks as though the Board have come around to the idea of abolishing game fee although they propose a limit of three games rather than five.

Reference
1. game fee (item 10) http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... 16-1-1.pdf

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:16 am

This seems to be the relevant passage: "The Board accepted the proposal to introduce three free games per subscription year and abolish game fee. Leagues will be invoiced £25 for every non-member who plays more than three games. It was agreed that a formal proposal should be put to the Finance Council meeting."

What happens if, for example, a non-member plays two games in each of two leagues (that is, four games in total) is not immediately obvious to me although I'm sure that wiser heads on the Board are clear which league, if any, would be invoiced.

User avatar
Michael Farthing
Posts: 1798
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
Location: Morecambe, Europe

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Michael Farthing » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:22 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
What happens if, for example, a non-member plays two games in each of two leagues (that is, four games in total) is not immediately obvious to me although I'm sure that wiser heads on the Board are clear which league, if any, would be invoiced.
Precisely. Though I think Mike has said that such situations, being rare, will simply be ignored, sensibly pragmatic. However, that's why I have suggested that there should be a fixed number of games per league in which non-member might be fielded, taking no regard as to how many game any individual such player might have played overall. A tolerant league might finish up using all its allowance on one player and it might be objected that such a player was taking advantageous of the system. Personally, I think that local pressures would sort that situation (though it might also be that local knowledge might also dictate that the indivudual concerned was paticularly needy).

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18057
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:09 pm

Michael Farthing wrote: However, that's why I have suggested that there should be a fixed number of games per league in which non-member might be fielded, taking no regard as to how many game any individual such player might have played overall.
The simplest formula for this is that it's number of matches multiplied by number of boards per match. In other words no membership requirement whatsoever other than that the league should be an ECF member. That after all corresponds to the voting influence. The double charging objection can be dealt with by reducing membership requirements elsewhere to essentially platinum status where you become a member to support and influence the ECF . Give platinum members votes in exchange for their financial support of the ECF.

If "number of members" is important in some manner, make it the playing a graded game makes you a "something" of the ECF. That's where you are known to the ECF, but don't have to make a direct financial contribution to it or are barred if you haven't.

Advocates of "membership" made much of the ECF having individual details. But over say the last five years, has the ECF managed to do anything with this information it couldn't have done with a voluntary opt-in system to receive chess related correspondence?

Mick Norris
Posts: 7428
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: Abolish Game Fee!

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:44 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Advocates of "membership" made much of the ECF having individual details. But over say the last five years, has the ECF managed to do anything with this information it couldn't have done with a voluntary opt-in system to receive chess related correspondence?
Tradewise sponsorship
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Post Reply