Possible Voting Reform

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Angus French
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Angus French » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:14 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:So as to clarify my thinking, perhaps someone could answer the following simple question. Are juniors also direct members?
That ought to be a simple question to answer but, on checking the ECF's Articles of Association and the Direct Members' Bye Laws, I can only say the answer is an implied "yes". The same is also true for non-juniors.
Article 5 wrote:There shall be the following divisions of members:
...
(16) “Direct Members” as defined in the Direct Members Bye Laws.
... but the Direct Members Bye Laws don't, so far as I can see, define what a Direct Member is. That said, they do define a number of terms including, for example, "Bronze Concessionary Members" and "Junior Members".
Direct Members Bye Laws wrote:“1. Definitions...
“Bronze Concessionary Members” means Bronze Concessionary Members who become Direct Members of the Company pursuant to Article 5(14) on or after 1st September 2012 who fulfil the following criteria namely who are aged under 18 years at the previous September 1st of the date of admission to membership or the annual renewal thereof.
...
“Junior Members” means the Junior Members of the British Chess Federation who become Direct Members of the Company pursuant to Article 6(1) or who are admitted to membership by the Board are those who fulfil the following criteria namely who are aged under 18 years at the previous September 1st of the date of admission to membership or the annual renewal thereof, which category of membership shall be closed with effect from 31st August 2012 but this will not affect the unexpired portion of any subscription outstanding at that date.
... and they do imply that Junior members are Direct Members - for example, in sections 3. Membership Benefits and 5. Election of Direct Members’ Representatives.

The Direct Members Bye Laws are clogged up with pre-Membership Scheme references (for example to Basic and Standard Members) and incorrect references to the Articles (for example, to 5(14) and 6(1) in the definitions quoted above). They're in need of revision and I know this was recognised by the Constitutional and Governance Review Subcommittee which oversaw implementation of the Pearce Report recommendations. An action was with the Company Secretary to produce a new version in liaison with the Chairman of Governance and Director of Membership.

Angus French
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Angus French » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:26 pm

benedgell wrote:Can't say I'm in favour of any of the options presented.
Ben, can you say more about how you feel? And do you think there is a need for reform? I'm mindful that you represent or act as a proxy for a large number of Member Organisations at Council meetings.

Chris Fegan
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Chris Fegan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:07 pm

Michael Farthing writes the following"

"And it is very frustrating to hear the strident, principled calls for OMOV and when the individuals calling for it are asked for firm proposals on implementation there is a sudden silence from them! "

and to which the obvious reply is

What utter rubbish, the people arguing for change have been doing so strongly and with consistency for years including producing proposals for the ECF Board for consideration and continue to do so.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:25 pm

So what are your proposals Chris?

Chris Fegan
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Chris Fegan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:So what are your proposals Chris?
They were given to the ECF Gov Committe Chair for discussion at the Board over 2 years ago and were in part subsequentoy discussed on the formal ECF Forum during the intervening period

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:40 pm

Chris Fegan wrote: They were given to the ECF Gov Committe Chair for discussion at the Board over 2 years ago and were in part subsequentoy discussed on the formal ECF Forum during the intervening period
I, for one, would be at a loss if I tried to summarise them.

Given the generic three options seemingly now being presented, how would they fit these categories?

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:48 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Michael Farthing wrote:So what are your proposals Chris?
They were given to the ECF Gov Committe Chair for discussion at the Board over 2 years ago and were in part subsequentoy discussed on the formal ECF Forum during the intervening period
Neither of these are available now. Perhaps you would remind us what your proposals are/were?

Chris Fegan
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Chris Fegan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:58 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Chris Fegan wrote:
Michael Farthing wrote:So what are your proposals Chris?
They were given to the ECF Gov Committe Chair for discussion at the Board over 2 years ago and were in part subsequentoy discussed on the formal ECF Forum during the intervening period
Neither of these are available now. Perhaps you would remind us what your proposals are/were?
My proposals were and are designed for proper consideration in serious places and not intended for an Internet gossipfest and I have recently discussed them again with Board representatives but are therefore not for such a trivial place as this

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Then I think that my assertion that when the advocates of OMOV are asked to be specific they become silent seems justified by the facts.

Chris Fegan
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Chris Fegan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:36 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:Then I think that my assertion that when the advocates of OMOV are asked to be specific they become silent seems justified by the facts.
Absolutely NOT, the views have been made known to whom and where it matters but I think that the subject matters are very important and are not for Internet gossipfests such as this.

If the ECF Forum had not been stupidly abandoned then a proper conversation and consultation could take place there but not on a place such as this, so you should take up your carping and moans with the people responsible for that earlier shortsighted and frankly rather poor decision to abolish good interaction with the ECF Membership in a proper and controlled manner rather than the decision of settling (under pressure) for this very poor and inadequate substitute.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:42 pm

Whatever, Chris.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:06 pm

Chris Fegan wrote: Absolutely NOT, the views have been made known to whom and where it matters but I think that the subject matters are very important and are not for Internet gossipfests such as this.
This is where the discussions take place. If you aren't prepared to put your views forward, no-one will know what they are and care even less. You wouldn't give any outline details on the ECF Forum either.

Given the nature of the subject, at least some of the potential recipients of additional voting rights could actually like to know what they might be.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:38 pm

Thanks, Angus, for your clarification (more or less!) that the ECF rules "do imply that Junior members are Direct Members - for example, in sections 3. Membership Benefits and 5. Election of Direct Members’ Representatives" which was what I had rather suspected. So I presume I'm right in thinking that the youngest member of our club, her ECF membership duly paid, would be entitled at the ripe old age of 6 to a vote under some of these reforms. I'm sure she won't mind my wondering aloud whether that's an altogether sensible idea. Mind you, I suspect none of our juniors would have voted for a certain Mr Trump.

PeterFarr
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by PeterFarr » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:53 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
My proposals were and are designed for proper consideration in serious places and not intended for an Internet gossipfest and I have recently discussed them again with Board representatives but are therefore not for such a trivial place as this
Your views fit excellently with a desire to move towards an open democratic environment, where everyone can have a say, and away from the old school smoked-filled-rooms style. I'm sure you've convinced everyone with your powerful arguments.

Chris Fegan
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Re: Possible Voting Reform

Post by Chris Fegan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:02 pm

PeterFarr wrote:
Chris Fegan wrote:
My proposals were and are designed for proper consideration in serious places and not intended for an Internet gossipfest and I have recently discussed them again with Board representatives but are therefore not for such a trivial place as this
Your views fit excellently with a desire to move towards an open democratic environment, where everyone can have a say, and away from the old school smoked-filled-rooms style. I'm sure you've convinced everyone with your powerful arguments.
No doubt you think this self selecting gossipfest is democracy at work-it is actually an ill informed talking shop of the self appointed. I will be much more interest in hearing what ordinary membership paying ECF members have to say when they repsond by e-mail to the formal consulatation ratr than anything said here.

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