New sponsor for british chess championship

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Ian Thompson
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:The prize structure is crazy, given the restricted eligibility.
It doesn't look crazy to me. If you want to attract a strong field of professional, or semi-professional, players you need to give players a reasonable chance of making a decent return on 1.5 weeks work, and a very good chance of not losing money on the event. First prize is irrelevant for this because anyone under about 2650 is unlikely to win it. What matters is large prizes going well down the prize list.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:02 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:First prize is irrelevant for this because anyone under about 2650 is unlikely to win it. What matters is large prizes going well down the prize list.
Eight prize is £ 500. The prize for the best rating performance of someone up to 2550 is £ 2000. Why aren't the same players in line for both? Will there really be eight entrants above 2550?

I think the practice of awarding grading prizes by relative performance rather than score is wrong anyway, but doesn't it work rather better when the grading prizes don't clash with the place prizes? Typically this is done by restricting grading prizes to the third and forth quartiles, sometimes including the second quartile.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:27 pm

The rating prizes don't make much sense to me either. But the sponsorship very welcome, and I expect it will have a knock on effect that increases entries.

I don't know who Mr P is, but someone has certainly done a good job.

Keith Arkell
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Keith Arkell » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:23 am

I rather like all these extra prizes ( old gits, rating and 8 places) but does the announcement make clear whether you can win more than one of them?

NickFaulks
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:04 am

Roger de Coverly wrote: I think the practice of awarding grading prizes by relative performance rather than score is wrong anyway, but doesn't it work rather better....
No, it's fundamentally a dreadful idea and cannot be rescued by the details.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Martin Regan

Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Martin Regan » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Ignore the carping.Well done to all those involved. Sponsors do not grow on trees.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:49 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:The rating prizes don't make much sense to me either. But the sponsorship very welcome, and I expect it will have a knock on effect that increases entries.

I don't know who Mr P is, but someone has certainly done a good job.
Malcolm?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Ian Thompson
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:00 pm

Keith Arkell wrote:I rather like all these extra prizes ( old gits, rating and 8 places) but does the announcement make clear whether you can win more than one of them?
The Tournament Rules are clear on this, with one exception.

"Where a player wins a place prize and a rating prize, the player will win whichever prize is of the higher value."

"The additional prizes are won in addition to any other prize a player might win."

The exception is the English Champion prize. It sounds like it ought to be an "additional prize", but it's confusingly listed in the place prize section, as an addition to the British Championship first prize of £8,500.

Nick Grey
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:56 pm

Well done on the sponsorship.

I see no reason to dilute the prize pool for say an U2050 rating prize. Many below that are not playing chess for the money.
The major open is not going to announce any grading prizes until entries.

Then again that may be the reason that Roger played in the U2050 at London Chess Classic.

Even as an amateur patzer I do not even look at prize money before entering tournaments

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:00 pm

Nick Grey wrote: Then again that may be the reason that Roger played in the U2050 at London Chess Classic.
I regard it as an important point of principle that you don't exclude players below a particular rating from rating prizes. It appears I am in conflict with at least one, possibly two of the ECF's Directors on this issue.

Mike Truran
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:33 pm

Yes, it appears that you are.

But as they are the ones who are actually obtaining sponsorship and organising the British Championship, maybe their views on the matter have some value as well.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:41 pm

Mike Truran wrote: But as they are the ones who are actually obtaining sponsorship and organising the British Championship, maybe their views on the matter have some value as well.
Is the ECF willing to make a public statement that it wishes to discourage players rated under 2050 from entering the 2017 British Championship even though the very generous qualification rules set by the ECF enables many of them to qualify?

How many years is the sponsorship likely to last? Relying on the prestige of the British to attract lower rated entrants has kept the Championship financially viable for several recent years.

Mike Truran
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 am

I think you may have missed my point.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:12 am

Mike Truran wrote:I think you may have missed my point.
Your point being?

To my mind there's a diligence issue. Whilst inspecting the dentistry of horses might be considered undesirable, the sponsor is a recently established Company which could raise questions as to the strength of the covenant to finance the Championships. It would be somewhere between embarrassing and a financial disaster given an increased prize fund has been announced if the plug was pulled. The name "Peterborough Software" springs to mind in this context.

For what it's worth I think it's genuine given the names that can be uncovered by a Google search.

NickFaulks
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:44 am

Nick Grey wrote: I see no reason to dilute the prize pool for say an U2050 rating prize.
Nor is anyone suggesting that. The point is that a player rated 2049 is not eligible for the lowest rating prize, however well they perform. If they are that unwelcome, it would be more honest simply to tell them they can't play.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

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