ECF Agm 2017

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:32 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:The constraint on becoming a FIDE Licensed "Arbiter at National Levels" In England stems from ECF Regulations, not FIDE Regulations.
Indeed. The number of human beings ( if that is even a requirement ) over the age of 16 in England is quite large.

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:37 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:50 pm
Also, if all England's tournaments were to become FIDE rated, would there be sufficient FIDE recognised Arbiters to support them?
Before you get to that far distant time I would suggest that you need to get to the time when all England's tournaments are ECF graded. That is still a long way off.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:12 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:37 pm
Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:50 pm
Also, if all England's tournaments were to become FIDE rated, would there be sufficient FIDE recognised Arbiters to support them?
Before you get to that far distant time I would suggest that you need to get to the time when all England's tournaments are ECF graded. That is still a long way off.
Is it? How many tournaments don't get graded these days??
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:38 pm

In Durham it is mainly rapid tournaments. Earlier in the year there was a rather dodgy rapid in Thornaby where it was announced beforehand that the "arbiter" would be fiddling the pairings in favour of local players. Less controversially there is a rapid team tournament called the "Ron Evers" - http://www.dcca.org.uk/competitions/Ron-Evers-rules.htm .

Anecdotally in Yorkshire ECF graded chess is the exception rather than the rule although you would need to get confirmation from a Yorkie on that one.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:02 pm

Don't they (Yorks) have their local grading list though? Certainly used to.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Paul Douglass
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Paul Douglass » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:58 am

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:38 pm
In Durham it is mainly rapid tournaments. Earlier in the year there was a rather dodgy rapid in Thornaby where it was announced beforehand that the "arbiter" would be fiddling the pairings in favour of local players. Less controversially there is a rapid team tournament called the "Ron Evers" - http://www.dcca.org.uk/competitions/Ron-Evers-rules.htm .

Anecdotally in Yorkshire ECF graded chess is the exception rather than the rule although you would need to get confirmation from a Yorkie on that one.
I played at Thornaby and the games weren't graded. Just a friendly rapid play to commemorate my club's 10th anniversary. A bit harsh to call it dodgy!
Paul Douglass

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Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:16 pm

Paul, it was announced beforehand that the pairings were going to be changed where local players were paired together (so in the first round I wasn't surprised to be paired against somebody with a very similar grade to myself) and one local player was given 3 cash prizes! Normal practice is maximum of one prize per player. Even if like me you weren't expecting to compete for a prize that sort of thing just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Having said all that the thing that would stop me making the trip again was the use of a variety of different analogue clocks. Even if you are so mired in the past that you don't want to use increments at least use digital clocks so that old people with dodgy eyesight like me can see how much time they've got left.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Paul Douglass
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Paul Douglass » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:06 am

Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:16 pm
Paul, it was announced beforehand that the pairings were going to be changed where local players were paired together (so in the first round I wasn't surprised to be paired against somebody with a very similar grade to myself) and one local player was given 3 cash prizes! Normal practice is maximum of one prize per player. Even if like me you weren't expecting to compete for a prize that sort of thing just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Having said all that the thing that would stop me making the trip again was the use of a variety of different analogue clocks. Even if you are so mired in the past that you don't want to use increments at least use digital clocks so that old people with dodgy eyesight like me can see how much time they've got left.
Friendly tournament with no games graded.
There were particular prizes for CCA players as well as overall prizes. The player in question met that criteria. Does it really matter, when you claim to be not bothered?
The club hosting the tournament, which I happen to be a member of, is a small club with limited resources. Tough luck about clocks.

Probably best to leave any future tournaments at our club alone. Don't want your mouth experiencing any more bad tastes.
Last edited by Paul Douglass on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Douglass

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:05 pm

Paul Douglass wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:06 am
The club hosting the tournament, which I happen to be a member, of is a small club with limited resources. Tough luck about clocks.
But you don't mean that, do you?

Even before the DGT offer, you could get (say) 12 clocks for £600. Assuming the club is Thornaby, your club has 14 graded players, so 12 is already too many, but I guess this tournament required more clocks than you would normally want. Let's assume the normal depreciation rate for electronic equipment is the lifetime of the clock, which is 5 years. Experience with the DGT 2010 suggests that 5 years is not very generous, many last much longer. But assuming 5 years, that's £120/year, so on average, that's about £10/member per year. I don't believe that a club and its members couldn't get those resources. I could believe that they had never thought to get digital clocks, or were quite happy to stick with their analogues. But that's not the same thing.

Paul Douglass
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Paul Douglass » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:09 am

Despite the defensive nature of my recent posts, I was simply replying to the ludicrous nature of Brian Tower's suggestion that there was dodginess about our friendly, good natured tournament. I don't recall anyone making complaints on the day. But there's obviously some people who can't be pleased.

Re Clocks: We actually purchased around 8 digital clocks recently through a deal with Chess Direct and are currently testing them with off hand games.

The point I was trying to make to Brian Towers was there is no god given right to a use of a digital clock. Frankly, I'm personally not bothered as long as I have a clock!

That's enough posts on this forum for now!
Paul Douglass

"Every time I win a tournament I have to think that there is something wrong with modern chess." - Victor Korchnoi

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:01 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:05 pm
I could believe that they had never thought to get digital clocks, or were quite happy to stick with their analogues. But that's not the same thing.
As has been mentioned here, the London League has recently spent a huge amount of money on new ( I didn't realise they were still being made ) analogue chess clocks. They are being found at an alarming rate to be found faulty during the games and replaced. In the course of the last two matches, our top board has used five different clocks.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:09 am

Paul Douglass wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:09 am
The point I was trying to make to Brian Towers was there is no god given right to a use of a digital clock.
Brian has played most of his competitive chess outside the UK, so actually, he does expect to turn up to a chess game and see a digital clock.

It's always amusing when the matter comes up at FIDE meetings, usually in the context of whether or not they can get rid of the guillotine finish Laws, or insist on title norms needing increments.

The Americans are happy, because they just make the players buy it and supply the equipment. The Indians are happy because they've got enough digital clocks now for their tournaments with 2500+ players. The Africans are happy, because digital clocks are just about all they've ever had in some African countries. It's always England that's quoted as the backwards country that still uses them willingly. :roll:

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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:12 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:01 am
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:05 pm
I could believe that they had never thought to get digital clocks, or were quite happy to stick with their analogues. But that's not the same thing.
As has been mentioned here, the London League has recently spent a huge amount of money on new ( I didn't realise they were still being made ) analogue chess clocks. They are being found at an alarming rate to be found faulty during the games and replaced. In the course of the last two matches, our top board has used five different clocks.
Good, perhaps the League can take them back as faulty and buy some digital clocks this time.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Agm 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:33 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:09 am
It's always amusing when the matter comes up at FIDE meetings, usually in the context of whether or not they can get rid of the guillotine finish Laws, or insist on title norms needing increments.
I find the loudest guffaws arise from the concept of playing blitz with analogue clocks.

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