DGT/FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highly reduced rate

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Paul McKeown
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:34 pm

Gareth, that is exactly one of the issues that I had in mind.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:41 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:Another significant difference is that the 3000 tells you which session you are in. I consider that a big plus.
For playing hours of four hours or less, you should probably scrap intermediate time controls and only have one session. That way you avoid the grey area where the clock doesn't properly show the remaining time.

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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:52 pm

NickFaulks wrote:For the benefit of newcomers to this thread, the title still talks about a "FIDE offer", which is utterly untrue and might be considered libellous.
Utterly untrue? Not according to the ECF.

Libellous? :roll:

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:55 pm

The ECF site does suggest this is a DGT offer.
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NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:That way you avoid the grey area where the clock doesn't properly show the remaining time.
I really don't like time controls being determined by what the clock can handle.

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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:00 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:Libellous? :roll:
Your opening post questions whether this offer is ethical and/or legal. On that basis, you might at least be accurate about who is making it.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:05 pm

NickFaulks wrote: I really don't like time controls being determined by what the clock can handle.
Fact of life though. The FIDE 90 30 standard was originally going to be something like 40 moves in 75 minutes with an extra 15 added and 30 second increments from move 41. The 1990s Mk1 DGT wasn't able to handle this.

For that matter, the design feature of not displaying the move number makes the use of a time control that adds the extra time at the appropriate move number more problematic than it should be.

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Fact of life though. The FIDE 90 30 standard was originally going to be something like 40 moves in 75 minutes with an extra 15 added and 30 second increments from move 41. The 1990s Mk1 DGT wasn't able to handle this.
That was a long time ago. Nowadays clocks are supposed to do what you want them to.

Paul McKeown
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:28 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Paul McKeown wrote:Libellous? :roll:
Your opening post questions whether this offer is ethical and/or legal. On that basis, you might at least be accurate about who is making it.
It would be difficult for a genuine question to be defamatory. It is a request for information, opinions or help. It is not a statement. :roll:

For the benefit of the doubt:
Paul McKeown wrote:What do people think of the ethics and legality of this action?
- that is a question.

Please note:
  • the use of the interrogatory form, "What"
    the request from others, "do people"
    for their opinions, "think"
    and the interrogation point, "?" commonly known as a question mark.

Paul McKeown
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:36 pm

However, I do stand corrected regarding the source of the offer, which is DGT, itself.

That is the power of questions.

One gains answers from people who know stuff.

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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 pm

However Ecforum's "FIDE One" demanding justice should read the ECF's words carefully:
All purchases need to be agreed by FIDE, and I have written to them asking for further information
It would appear that FIDE does indeed have some role in the process of supplying clocks to federations.

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:04 pm

Paul McKeown wrote: read the ECF's words carefully:
All purchases need to be agreed by FIDE, and I have written to them asking for further information
I have read those words carefully and have already said a couple of times that I would be interested to know where this information comes from. I have not heard it from any other source, including the owner of DGT.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:13 pm

I suppose it would be wholly uncharitable to speculate whether the "need to be agreed by FIDE" comes with an attendant cost, in other words, whether individuals at FIDE see this as another source of income for that organisation?

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:24 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:I suppose it would be wholly uncharitable to speculate whether the "need to be agreed by FIDE" comes with an attendant cost, in other words, whether individuals at FIDE see this as another source of income for that organisation?
As I have said before, I have no idea where the "need to be agreed by FIDE" theory originated. Even if it turns out that there is something behind it, how can DGT selling clocks to federations for not much more than cost provide a significant source of income?

Alex McFarlane
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Re: FIDE Offer to Federations to purchase clocks at a highy reduced rate

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:14 pm

NickFaulks wrote:As I have said before, I have no idea where the "need to be agreed by FIDE" theory originated.
I was not at the Development Commission Meeting but I was told by those who were that applications for clocks had to go through the Development Commission (as is apparently the case with current offers to developing nations).

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