Director of Women's Chess

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Nick Grey
Posts: 890
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:29 pm

Any governing body without misconduct rules and procedures deserves any grief it gets. Or bad press.

There are really good reasons for not just having these rules against officials.

We also have enough problems about the rules/laws and ethics regarding chess and competitions.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3694
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:42 pm

The ECF has very little power to meaningfully punish people who are not its officials, though, so misconduct rules for ordinary members would have very few teeth.

Not, in any case, that I believe Amanda's behaviour here constitutes bringing the game into disrepute, although punishing her for it might do so.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 17246
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:45 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:29 pm
Any governing body without misconduct rules and procedures deserves any grief it gets. Or bad press.
Is the ECF really a body to which you would hand powers to take quasi-legal action against anyone with the temerity to criticise it?

It remains to be seen what happens in October, but I'd suspect the appointment of Chris Fegan will not have been popular. It's not as if that Director role does anything critical at present, being as much for show as anything else, so an inexperienced holder would just function as an extra non-exec.

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:49 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:42 pm
The ECF has very little power to meaningfully punish people who are not its officials, though, so misconduct rules for ordinary members would have very few teeth.

Not, in any case, that I believe Amanda's behaviour here constitutes bringing the game into disrepute, although punishing her for it might do so.
In any case she is not actually a member (something which does diminish her credibility slightly - she appears not to realise that the ECF is ultimately a membership funded organisation). That said, while I disagree with a lot of things she has said during this debate the suggestion that she has in anyway violated the code of conduct quite frankly beggars belief. More to the point she has done more for English chess than most contributors to this thread (including myself).
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Jonathan Bryant
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:40 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:29 pm
Any governing body without misconduct rules and procedures deserves any grief it gets. Or bad press.

There are really good reasons for not just having these rules against officials.

We also have enough problems about the rules/laws and ethics regarding chess and competitions.
I would certainly like the ECF to be able to do something about proven cheats. Anything else? I'm not so sure.

What exactly is it that has happened that you feel justifies some kind of punitive action from a ruling body? Would you 'charge' the journalist too?

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2497
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:59 am

"In any case she is not actually a member"

which makes it a bit difficult for ECF to take action! (even if that were a good idea, which it isn't.)

There are legal difficulties with "disciplinary action". Sporting bodies saying someone is bringing "the game into disrepute" normally make themselves look stupid as the governing body is usually hardly perfect.

benedgell
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by benedgell » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:39 am

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/01/english- ... n-7674762/?

More BS, copied almost entirely from the Telegraph article.

NickFaulks
Posts: 4407
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:43 am

benedgell wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:39 am
More BS, copied almost entirely from the Telegraph article.
The bit about Kasparov regularly losing to Judit Polgar is original.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 5483
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:17 am

benedgell wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:39 am
https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/01/english- ... n-7674762/?

More BS, copied almost entirely from the Telegraph article.
Which of them would you prefer to refute for us?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 4407
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:35 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:17 am
Which of them would you prefer to refute for us?
How about "We tried to work with the ECF – now we have to go around them"?

The only such attempt I am aware of is to have demanded £6,000 and then expressed indignation when asked to specify what it would be spent on.

edit : Then there is

"The decision comes just a week after the ECF appointed a male player, IM Lorin D’Costa, as the non-playing captain of the England women's team for September's Chess Olympiad - the game's premier team competition - in Georgia."

That is of course accurate, but it is presented as a Bad Thing for Women. I suspect that the team themselves think it is a Good Thing.

Mick Norris
Posts: 6983
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:16 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:35 am
"The decision comes just a week after the ECF appointed a male player, IM Lorin D’Costa, as the non-playing captain of the England women's team for September's Chess Olympiad - the game's premier team competition - in Georgia."

That is of course accurate, but it is presented as a Bad Thing for Women. I suspect that the team themselves think it is a Good Thing.
You'd never guess from the announcement on the ECF website captains though, would you?

I'm not criticising volunteers or hard working staff, but the ECF could do with putting a positive spin on this
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:35 pm

I was tempted to comment on the Telegraph article to correct some of the grosser errors but now the infection is spreading there doesn't seem much point. One of the most offensive inaccuracies that is being cut and pasted is the allegedly `paltry` sum of £5,000. How much money do they think the ECF has?

It's also notable that neither the Telegraph or the Metro state that the post is a voluntary one. To be fair, neither do they imply the job is paid but if some chess players are ignorant enough to think that the ECF board earn six figure salaries, what hope is there for the general public?

Finally it occurred to me that this is actually the fifth ECF related matter to be covered in the mainstream press since 2011. In all cases the reporting was inaccurate and in all but one case were put forward by somebody with an agenda who ultimately vanished from view.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 5483
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:15 pm

I wonder why this keeps happening?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Ian Thompson
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:43 am
benedgell wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:39 am
More BS, copied almost entirely from the Telegraph article.
The bit about Kasparov regularly losing to Judit Polgar is original.
Not quite - today's Times has a similar article making the same claim, although it's not at the start of the article that you can read for free online. You either need a printed copy of the newspaper, or to subscribe to their online service to see it.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:14 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:35 am
"The decision comes just a week after the ECF appointed a male player, IM Lorin D’Costa, as the non-playing captain of the England women's team for September's Chess Olympiad - the game's premier team competition - in Georgia."

That is of course accurate, but it is presented as a Bad Thing for Women. I suspect that the team themselves think it is a Good Thing.
It does seem to be a popular option. Perusing the women's team captains at the Baku Olympiad shows that may countries chose a titled male player as their team captain. That person was often a much stronger player than any of the women in the team.

Post Reply