Director of Women's Chess

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:53 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:33 pm
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:03 pm
As for hovels it's the simple truth that too many chess players expect their hobby on the cheap. I'm willing to bet nobody here pays £100 p/a for their club/ league chess but it works out as less than a tenner a month. While it is true that some players might not be able to pay that, I'm willing to bet that there are plenty who could pay five times as much.
Hmm, final 4NCL weekend alone in early May I spent £120+ on hotel accommodation, never mind petrol and refreshments. In that I certainly wasn't alone. The cost of annual club subscriptions is, for many, a small fraction of their chess-related expenditure over the year which will often exceed £500.
I deliberately specified club/ league chess for a reason. It is true that when I play a congress it costs me a lot more the bulk of it goes to a B&B or a train company. However many club/ league stalwarts don't play congress chess and ultimately these are the people we rely on to attract new players to the game.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm
Paul McKeown wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:49 pm

The rules of various competitions seem designed to thwart the efforts of junior clubs, recognising only teams from schools or counties...
J4NCL comes immediately to mind although, with that exception, I agree.
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Controller - Yorkshire League
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Mike Truran
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:21 pm

Roger

Your post could possibly be construed as being a little ambiguous to the inattentive reader. I believe you mean (although please correct me if I'm wrong) that "the J4NCL comes immediately to mind" as an event that has been designed NOT "to thwart the efforts of junior clubs". In the spirit of the 4NCL itself we have worked hard to try to achieve a level playing field between boys and girls, and to allow all young players to play in the J4NCL regardless of whether they belong to a club, a school, a county or are just a group of like-minded chess playing friends. The only constraints (which most/all junior events suffer from) are entry fees, travel and accommodation costs, and team captains/managers to make it happen.

Mike

NickFaulks
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:07 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:47 pm
One thing that might make tournaments and clubs more attractive to adult women would be if there were creche facilities available.
Also to adult men, presumably.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:26 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:03 pm
I'm willing to bet nobody here pays £100 p/a for their club/ league chess ...
I don't know about members of this Forum, but:

http://ccfworld.com/Chess/ChessClubHome ... 018-19.htm

I think that there may be other clubs in the London area with an annual subscription of £100. £75 - £80 is not uncommon.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:45 am

"Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

I'm willing to bet nobody here pays £100 p/a for their club/ league chess ..."

You lose. Redhill subscriptions were over £100 in recent years.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:05 am

Mike Truran wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:21 pm
Roger

Your post could possibly be construed as being a little ambiguous to the inattentive reader. I believe you mean (although please correct me if I'm wrong) that "the J4NCL comes immediately to mind" as an event that has been designed NOT "to thwart the efforts of junior clubs". In the spirit of the 4NCL itself we have worked hard to try to achieve a level playing field between boys and girls, and to allow all young players to play in the J4NCL regardless of whether they belong to a club, a school, a county or are just a group of like-minded chess playing friends. The only constraints (which most/all junior events suffer from) are entry fees, travel and accommodation costs, and team captains/managers to make it happen.

Mike
More a case of the inattentive writer, I fear, and I've now edited my post to make the intended meaning clearer. Apologies to all involved with J4NCL, an event which is much enjoyed by our club juniors.

Neill Cooper
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Neill Cooper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:16 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Yes, it is a pity that there is a vacancy for both the ECF Manager of Junior Home Chess and for the ECF Manager of Girls’ Chess who could organise such events.

Secondary school chess is a uniquely 'representative' competition. To play for the school you must be a pupil. As soon as you relax that rule pupils find it disheartening to be beaten by teams who have picked from a wider pool of juniors. So the momentum we have built up in secondary school chess over the past decade would be put at risk. Similarly, developing secondary school teams do not want to play and lose to stronger primary schools.

I did this year organise one ECF junior event with a less restrictive qualification criteria - the U18 county championships. We ran it in Lincolnshire in the hope that more teams from outside the South east would take part. In that aim there was limited success - but there was a Yorkshire team so Harrogate Juniors did have the opportunity to play.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Of course, maybe the remedy here lies in the hands of those of us involved in running junior-only or junior-friendly clubs. Would it be impossible to work together to organise a competition or competitions? Preferably, I'd suggest, a different format to J4NCL to avoid conflicting with that event.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:37 pm

There's a new book by Quality Chess written by Jaan Ehlvest
https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/G ... xcerpt.pdf

On page 258 under a general chapter heading "How to Build your Repertoire", there's a sub section "Opening repertoire for women".

I can remember Nigel once commenting that the Scandinavian was a bit of a girl's opening, so I wonder what Jaan has come up with.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Of course, maybe the remedy here lies in the hands of those of us involved in running junior-only or junior-friendly clubs. Would it be impossible to work together to organise a competition or competitions? Preferably, I'd suggest, a different format to J4NCL to avoid conflicting with that event.
Agreed. I'm about to reply to Neill's post but the litmus test for `why can't we have` questions is whether it's within the gift of yourself and others asking the question to get it up and running yourself. If the answer is yes there's nothing to complain about, if no then there is a wider issue that needs tackling.
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Of course, maybe the remedy here lies in the hands of those of us involved in running junior-only or junior-friendly clubs. Would it be impossible to work together to organise a competition or competitions? Preferably, I'd suggest, a different format to J4NCL to avoid conflicting with that event.
Agreed. I'm about to reply to Neill's post but the litmus test for `why can't we have` questions is whether it's within the gift of yourself and others asking the question to get it up and running yourself. If the answer is yes there's nothing to complain about, if no then there is a wider issue that needs tackling.
Let's put it like this. I don't see that it's something that anyone can do unilaterally and, of course, it's way off topic. But, if managers/organisers of clubs with substantial numbers of junior members and a desire to organise more inter-club events for them care to PM me, I'll see what potential there is to do something.

Neill Cooper
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Neill Cooper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:20 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am
Of course, maybe the remedy here lies in the hands of those of us involved in running junior-only or junior-friendly clubs. Would it be impossible to work together to organise a competition or competitions? Preferably, I'd suggest, a different format to J4NCL to avoid conflicting with that event.
Back in the 1970s I helped Mike Bruton in the early days of Maidenhead Junior Chess Club. In the original context of this thread of the 50 members 10 were girls - all of whom had brothers attending the club. We did not look that hard for team competitions but I do remember a club fixture we played in Wokingham.
When I was running Castles Junior Chess Club in the early 2000s I did find the lack of inter-club events frustrating, which is why the girls' team events run by Neil Clifton/Claire Summerscale were so welcome (about 12 out of the 70 members being girls, not all sisters). We did arrange a few fixtures ourselves - including one against East Grinstead Junior Chess Club. We also had the privilege of being able to field teams in the CCF Coulsdon evening superleague.
Once I had older players we then played in the Surrey league for a few years and also in the Croydon league for a few years.
The ECF did for a while have a post 'Manager of Junior Club Chess' (or something similar) but they did not seem to do anything.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:51 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:16 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 pm
I had this discussion with Neill in a thread last year. I stand by my view that too many prestige junior events are for schools which denies young players who don't play their chess at school a chance to participate. At the same time there's that well known saying about necessity.
Yes, it is a pity that there is a vacancy for both the ECF Manager of Junior Home Chess and for the ECF Manager of Girls’ Chess who could organise such events.

Secondary school chess is a uniquely 'representative' competition. To play for the school you must be a pupil. As soon as you relax that rule pupils find it disheartening to be beaten by teams who have picked from a wider pool of juniors. So the momentum we have built up in secondary school chess over the past decade would be put at risk. Similarly, developing secondary school teams do not want to play and lose to stronger primary schools.

I did this year organise one ECF junior event with a less restrictive qualification criteria - the U18 county championships. We ran it in Lincolnshire in the hope that more teams from outside the South east would take part. In that aim there was limited success - but there was a Yorkshire team so Harrogate Juniors did have the opportunity to play.
I agree that there is no perfect way of doing things; both school and club competitions have their pros and cons and I'm certainly not saying that inter school chess does not have a place. On top of that there are plenty of individual junior competitions open to players. I suppose my criticism is that the dominance of inter school competitions (at least those on the ECF junior page) seems out of step with the number of young players who don't have a chess club at their school, particularly in the state sector. But I might be wrong on that.

Since we corresponded last year I've started an inter junior club league in Yorkshire (a few teething problems but there always are). A Harrogate schools competition proved elusive but I made the mistake of linking it with a Harrogate primary schools event which was probably too early in the term.

As Roger says there are limits to what people can do unilaterally and I would have been stuck without the support of the excellent Phill Beckett. Lack of volunteers to make something happen is a blocker but it still doesn't stop it from being achievable. Going back to the point of this thread, a lot of women and girls chess activities are simply not achievable at present.
Controller - Yorkshire League
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:52 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:20 pm

The ECF did for a while have a post 'Manager of Junior Club Chess' (or something similar) but they did not seem to do anything.
Was there any guidance as to what this individual should have been doing?
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

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